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how to avoid

 
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how to avoid - Sat Oct 15, 2011, 09:35 AM
(#1)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
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i've met this dude several times at the tables playing ok and knows when to steal or how to use position or how to use his stack! the stealing part i've seen him done many of times and i saw him play even weaker hands but that's not the issue.

my question here is that when i am under 10 BB and i hit a hand like this one how i can avoid running in to higher pairs. every time i make my plan in reastealing or shortstack shoving i tend to look up the vilian with the highest pair on the table. i make mistakes i know but in this position with this many blinds, this tend to be an exceptable move right??

if not i realy get confused here! losing from a bigger pair ok but everytime acting on 1 of them wich let me tumble down from 10th place around 80 someting starts anoying me!!!

pls help

oh by the way this is a premier league hand and most players know what they are doing to a certain level so i hope not to read about if he's agressive then shove or when he is tight then fold because i was folding for almos 2 hours in lack of cards. and this is not about readiing oponents but how to aprove better shortstack moves!! because most moves i make when getting shortstacked just get crushed.

so maybe it's my table image or may positioning when i chosse to do something

 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 10:03 AM
(#2)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
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i addition of previous mesage i would add that i don't mean to be rude about reading opponnents because i am trying realy hard to pick up the right info on players but even the most nitty player i met so far has tried to pickoff a blind or 2 with just A high sitting button or cutoff. I've seen a lot of players playing only 99+, KJs+ ATs+ AJ+ and then suddenly pickoff on the blinds with Ax just because! that's the risk taken.

My problem is that myself is picking the wrong moment, at least that is how it feels.

every body i see steals or raises and gets the blinds or a fish caller and doubles up.

i shove or try to steal and run into AA or something of that order
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 10:28 AM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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well... here's the way I look at it.

If you're trying to win the tourney and don't care about the league pts... it's absolutely a push (unless the opp's a nit that has to have QQ+).

If you think the opp could have a hand and you need the extra league pts, then you could muck it preflop... but that's tough, becuase you absolutely need a read that the opp will have a monster, in order to do it.

I've had to fold for 6 hrs straight in a live tourney before. Just because you haven't got cards for two hrs, isn't a reason to want to shove. Reading opps in these situations is probably 90% of what should influence your decision.
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 10:56 AM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
I think folding for two hours because of lack of cards is probably a bigger mistake.

You have to think about this spot in a couple ways. The button raises to 3.5 BBs and you have under 10...you're getting called if you shove every time. Regardless of how tight your image is. If he folds to your shove that's seriously bad tournament poker.

Question: Is 3.5 BBs different from the raises you've seen him make with his late position steals? If so this could be an immediate hint that not only is he not folding but he has a very strong range.

Do you really want to take your pair of 8s up against this range? In general yes, 88 is a pretty strong hand.

This is actually a spot where I like a stop and go play. You're never getting him to fold preflop and you're always offering him good odds to call preflop. If you just call and jam the flop (any flop), you give him worse odds to call since he now has to pay the same price to see only two more cards as opposed to five if you shoved pre. And there are flops that he may not like. (AT-AK miss often enough).
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 11:07 AM
(#5)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
tnx JWK i know about the reading and in the premier it's hard because u don't see a lot of action!!

but i mean i tend to feel people see me!! or i think they do! i am looking for more advice about husseling up because i tend to believe they know they can pick me to make such amove as shown above!!

lik they know if we make a 2,5-4 times raise and he has something what lies inside the bounderies of shoving he does.
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 11:11 AM
(#6)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
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this all makes perfect sence but how can i keep track of that info!

how can i write down in short terms how big his steal raises are or opening raises on his range.

because the game is moving so fast i am more looking back making books then actualy playing
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 11:48 AM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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[QUOTE=77wopke77;304444 i am looking for more advice about husseling up because i tend to believe they know they can pick me to make such amove as shown above!!

lik they know if we make a 2,5-4 times raise and he has something what lies inside the bounderies of shoving he does.[/QUOTE]

What you cannot do, is to force it. If you want to hurry up and force a hand, it's one of the worst things you can do at a table, because it'll KO you alot more often than you will get chips. That's what a player with no patience will do... and it will normally get them into trouble.

If you're not getting cards, you have to muck. If you get them, then you need to play them aggressively.
What can be a tell for the opp, is if they raise a different amount. If their standard is say 3X and then they raise to 4X, then it's probably a monster (QQ+). If they raise less, it can be either a monster (AA) or small pair or big suited connectors. That's where reading the opp will come into play. The key info would be.. what is their standard raise and is this more or less than it. They raised over 3X, so that might be a tell, IF that is not their normal raise amount.
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 01:00 PM
(#8)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77wopke77 View Post
tnx JWK i know about the reading and in the premier it's hard because u don't see a lot of action!!

but i mean i tend to feel people see me!! or i think they do! i am looking for more advice about husseling up because i tend to believe they know they can pick me to make such amove as shown above!!

lik they know if we make a 2,5-4 times raise and he has something what lies inside the bounderies of shoving he does.
do you know what this player if from because iv seen eople say in other threads on here that the germans share info about there compotition
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 04:01 PM
(#9)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
no ron don't know where he's from? but tnx it could indeed be!!

JWK do u have a tip how i can see that fast an wrie it down?? i mean the raise amounts! u have to monitor 8 people!!!!
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 05:20 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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yes, you have to monitor 8 people... and if live... you also have to remember each and every one.
 

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