Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

Resteal Attempt -- Gutsy, or Lame?

 
Old
Default
Resteal Attempt -- Gutsy, or Lame? - Mon Oct 17, 2011, 11:56 PM
(#1)
ILuvPoker77's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 84
I had about 15 BB, we were down to 10 players in a $0.25 45-man, and I knew I needed to chip up if I wanted to make one of the top spots.

I'm in a bit of an experimental phase lately, and I'm learning that resteals can be really great when they work out, but they are risky.

What I'd like to know is whether this particular play was +EV, or not -- was it worth the risk?

(actual results of hand omitted)

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

~Luv

 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 12:32 AM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
It is generally going to be an ok play to make, but without more info on the villains it is hard to say.

Fact is, if the raise range/raise call range of these 2 are very very tight, then you are possibly in poo poo, but the stack sizes here are good for you to attempt the re-steal if only to squeeze out the BTN caller and take a race vs an Ace/big by the initial raiser.

If they will raise lighter, on hands that are generally good enough to have your 99 in good shape, YOUR stack size is not one where you really want to risk the frequency of over ards appearing to play it more standard.

So in almost all cases, this is a decent shot, as long as you understand you are at best racing if called, and often dominated. But it is a worthy risk to take.
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 12:58 AM
(#3)
Deleted user
Your image is really important on if you are able to pull this move off.

In my stint playing the 90mans I find it best to play standard poker. The tricky play always backfires
at this level. Flush hits and you sell it all streets and they will still call with top pair.
Some will even call with Ace high,its just not going to pay off restealing in these often enough.

If you willing to gamble then its not a bad move,but I think the amount they have already put in makes them more locked into playing for stacks.Its another thing I have found at this level.
They will stack off more often preflop than post flop.
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 10:38 AM
(#4)
ILuvPoker77's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 84
Thanks, JDean and Cookies, for your replies.

The villains were playing pretty standard TAG poker, it appeared to me, and I hadn't been shoving pre much at all, so they had no reason to think I was shoving light.

Yes, I'm aware that a lot of the time, someone's EP raising range, or range for calling an EP raise, is going to include a lot of hands that will call a 3-bet shove.

I was aware it was risky -- I knew I had a decent chance of being called, and that if I was called, I would be racing at best.

But sometimes, making moves like this (and winning) is what has catapulted me into the top spots.

Thanks, JDean, for confirming that it may have been worth it.

Anyway, this is how the hand actually turned out (and I wasn't upset about the outcome, as I knew it was quite possible I would bust):


Last edited by ILuvPoker77; Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 10:42 AM..
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 01:54 PM
(#5)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
I like the resteal here. The call of an all in w/ AJ is awful imo...at least you can note that that player will call off a bit light.

Keep it up Luv, it's great seeing a new member absorbing so much.
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 02:07 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
it's pretty much been said but the resteal depends a lot on the opponents (are they good targets? At least the pfr who you're squeezing should be) and what your image is can impact that as well.

That being said, it looks more like a value shove than a resteal vs. a villain that will call it off with AJo. Even if that's the very bottom of his range he's going to be calling with a lot of overcard combos (you're a small favorite) and some underpairs to 99. The wider he gets from there the better off it is for you. So you're leveraging some fold equity and have decent hand equity vs his calling range as well.
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 02:14 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Also re: the AJ call, I don't think it's automatically awful, it would be pretty good vs a light 3b restealer. But given our standard TAG image and no reason for them to think we even have this play in our arsenal, it's not a good call at all.

(vs. a 33% range, a really light 3b squeezer, AJ is a 60-40 favorite. But vs a 6% range, a tighter value 3-bettor, it's a 2-1 dog)
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 06:43 PM
(#8)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Yeah but isn't raise/folding AJ on 15 BBs terrible?

Also, when you get called you're not "flipping at best". 99 is ahead of many people's range here. 88 and 77 are probably calling too. I would guess his raise/call range is something like 77+ AJ+ ATs+ KQs. (though the pairs might go even lower if he's bad, and the aces might too).
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 07:52 PM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Yeah but isn't raise/folding AJ on 15 BBs terrible?

Also, when you get called you're not "flipping at best". 99 is ahead of many people's range here. 88 and 77 are probably calling too. I would guess his raise/call range is something like 77+ AJ+ ATs+ KQs. (though the pairs might go even lower if he's bad, and the aces might too).
The Villain has to consider a call for 15BB off a 21-22BB stack...he is not contemplating raise/folding off 15BB. While not ideal, it is certainly possible to fold to a 15BB shove after raising to 2.5BB to go with that size stack.

And...

99 versus the range you are stating, is a "race". Since by the Gap theory, you really do not account for the villain holding the BOTTOM end of his range as justification for the shove.

48.5% for 99
51.5% for the RANGE

MIGHT you be ahead of 88 or 77...yup. But that is 2 hands of a 16 hand range.

So by saying you are flipping at best (if called) in most cases, I was speaking of the entirety of the likely call range.

TY for the chance to clarify.

Last edited by JDean; Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 07:56 PM..
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 10:36 PM
(#10)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Quote:
Since by the Gap theory, you really do not account for the villain holding the BOTTOM end of his range as justification for the shove.
Accounting for the bottom of his range is what makes it a value shove rather than a bluff resteal.
 
Old
Default
Tue Oct 18, 2011, 11:42 PM
(#11)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
Had to laugh a bit at the responses. I find a very high percentage of players dont even consider other players style. Many, many players here look only at their two cards and will call with any ace.
 
Old
Default
Wed Oct 19, 2011, 03:07 AM
(#12)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Accounting for the bottom of his range is what makes it a value shove rather than a bluff resteal.
i do not at all dis-agree that it can be better termed a value shove rather than a re-steal.

At worst it is going to (likely) squeeze out at least 1 of the players, and even if it is called, it is not in awful shape most of the time.

It is a good shove overall in most cases, (we don't have enough info to really call it otherwise), no matter what you call it, although any "move" designed to get others to fold can technically called a "steal".

With 1500+ in the pot, and a chip up of about 33% for the OP, I do not think he'd MIND 2 folds, even if he knew 100% he was facing just a race.
 
Old
Default
Wed Oct 19, 2011, 03:36 AM
(#13)
ohjeohje's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 44
It wasn't steal but value shove. You did all right but just lost flip. Just register new tournament.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com