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Best way to gain max value?

 
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Best way to gain max value? - Tue Oct 18, 2011, 11:33 AM
(#1)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 745
With no reads what would be the best line to take when you flop quads on such a low board?



Thanks.
 
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Tue Oct 18, 2011, 11:37 AM
(#2)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 745
The replayer not showing my cards, I had 22 hitting quads.
 
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Tue Oct 18, 2011, 11:56 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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if an opp wants to bet out in front of you... just smooth call. With 3 low cards like that on the board, if nobody bets, I'm checking the flop... hoping someone hits the turn.
If opp doesn't bet the turn, then I'd make a small value bet (if I checked the flop). On the river... raise the max that you think someone will call.

You want to do whatever you can to keep the opps in, and get chips into the pot (but you don't want to raise enough to get opps to drop).
 
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Tue Oct 18, 2011, 05:31 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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In this spot your "best" option when lacking info is to check behind any checks, and to flat call any lead bet.

This is true because the threat to your hand in giving the free card is low enough (no opponent has greater than a 4.3% chance to suck out by the turn) that you are better served disguising the strength of your hand in hopes someone improves to a 2nd best hand they would be willing to invest more on.

Also, since you lack info about these players and their tendencies, about the ONLY hand you can expect to feel comfortable playing a big pot early against you is 33. This also argues for you to not run out hands which might otherwise improve to a 2nd best holding.
 
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Tue Oct 18, 2011, 06:58 PM
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So many overpairs and flush draws will put in a lot of money. When a player makes a potsize bet with that many people in the pot you have to assume they have something right?

Should we flat call or raise? Which is more likely to win us more money? If we call what's the chance that some of the others, who checked the flop, will call? If we raise we're basically isolating ourself against the flop bettor. I don't worry about him folding here for a standard raise ever. Since I think his range is so strong he's far more likely to call a nice size raise than the others are to call the current bet, I think raising is in order. I'd raise to about 27¢. This builds the pot, and you still have plenty left in your stack that it looks like you can fold. Also, now if he goes into check/call mode you should still be able to get stacks in nicely by the river.

If it checked around to you, then I would probably choose checking, as no one has shown any interest, but here someone has with a potsize bet. I think raising is the superior play. I'm not worried about him folding his or whatever.
 
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Tue Oct 18, 2011, 08:17 PM
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JDean's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
So many overpairs and flush draws will put in a lot of money. When a player makes a potsize bet with that many people in the pot you have to assume they have something right?

Should we flat call or raise? Which is more likely to win us more money? If we call what's the chance that some of the others, who checked the flop, will call? If we raise we're basically isolating ourself against the flop bettor. I don't worry about him folding here for a standard raise ever. Since I think his range is so strong he's far more likely to call a nice size raise than the others are to call the current bet, I think raising is in order. I'd raise to about 27¢. This builds the pot, and you still have plenty left in your stack that it looks like you can fold. Also, now if he goes into check/call mode you should still be able to get stacks in nicely by the river.

If it checked around to you, then I would probably choose checking, as no one has shown any interest, but here someone has with a potsize bet. I think raising is the superior play. I'm not worried about him folding his or whatever.
I think i'd be worried about the BB, who checked and got relative position, folding HIS JTs or whatever...

With a hand as powerful as Quads here, I want to do whatever I can to keep as many opponents in as I can. That is because the more players who are still in the pot, the more chance someone catches a truly STRONG, but 2nd best hand.

I dis-agree with you Oriholic, about assuming the lead bettor's willingness to bet the flop naturally indicates a hand he will be willing to CONTINUE contributing value to the pot. Is it a strong indication he MIGHT have such a hand...definately. But since we lack info on his overall playing tendencies, we have no clue if he is the type to KEEP firing on "just" a pair bigger than the 3 or a flush draw.

...of course we ALSO lack info on whether he will fire a 2nd bullet after we FLAT his pretty solid bet too, so I am not saying you line is 'bad". I just think for me, I would much rather try to keep the BB in to help my chances to get a full stack off.

If we had the info which would tell his about his aggression level on certain hands, then I'd be more inclined to follow your line. I would also be more inclined to follow your line if we had a MORE VULNERABLE hand here, like a set on an A 23, 2 spade flop. Both those situations present us with enough reason to not want the pot to stay multi-way, or not NEED the pot to stay multi-way, to gain solid value.

But in this spot, without info that a single player will pay us more than just the initial raise, I'd prefer a flat call of the bet.

Note: at any rate, I would also be quite prone to raise ANOTHER bet on the turn, and not simply continue to flat call. In that case I think we can assume the 2nd bullet means he has enough to be willing to call the raise.

Last edited by JDean; Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 03:12 AM..
 

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