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good fold bad play ?

 
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good fold bad play ? - Wed Oct 19, 2011, 04:28 PM
(#1)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
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cosminsvecz: bets 5133 and is all-in
m.bisland: folds [Ks Kd]
Uncalled bet (5133) returned to cosminsvecz
cosminsvecz collected 2550 from pot
cosminsvecz: shows [Qd Ts] (two pair, Queens and Tens)

How should i have played this imo i should have raised after the flop ?
 
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Wed Oct 19, 2011, 05:00 PM
(#2)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Need reads on other players, particularly the blinds and the raiser. If they're aggressive I call in position hoping they squeeze. If cosmin will call you wide preflop, just shove. If he's more likely to want to put in the last bet I like a 3-bet. He's out of position so for him calling blows. You have too much of your stack invested already to fold the flop. Just gotta push and hope he doesn't have an ace.

Edit: your 3-bet is too big though. Generally unless you're shoving try to keep your 3-bet somewhere around 3x his raise or less. Give him the illusion of fold equity. If you put in half your stack you can't be thinking fold with KK.

Last edited by oriholic; Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 07:36 PM.. Reason: Whoops, didn't realize how big your 3-bet was.
 
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Wed Oct 19, 2011, 06:02 PM
(#3)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
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I have got to the stage if i see a ace on the flop i think the other player has 1. 7/10 flops i get in seem to have a ace
 
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Wed Oct 19, 2011, 07:25 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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If you cannot answer the question about whether you should fold KK on an A high flop or not, you really need to be questioning your actions BEFORE the flop comes A high...

The key point here for you was your re-raise to 1150.
That is 44% of your Stack.
The important questions to ask are not "was this a good fold", but rather:

How likely are you to "run deep" if you fold away that re-raise amount, and continue forward with just 14BB?

- Obviously, trying to play on with just (roughly) half your stack when you did not start very deep anyway is going to be tough.
- 14BB is starting to get quite short, and really truncates what you can "do" in a hand.
- This is one of the reasons you should be eyeing ANY investment in a pot approaching 33% as "committing"

How likely were you to be ahead if you had jammed pre-flop instead, and were called?

- There is exactly 1 hand "ahead" of you now; AA
- There are NO hands (except AA) which have better than around a 30% shot against you.
- More often than not, your hand will be "just 1 pair" after the flop, and that 70%+ advantage could disappear.


How likely were you to get CALLED if you jammed pre-flop over the raise?

- Answering this requires knowing info on the opponent, his call tendencies, and his hand range.
- You do not supply that info here, but that is the sort of info you need to be trying to collect BEFORE you have to decide about folding off 44% of your chips on an A high flop.

Bottom Line:

- Just about any standard type re-raise by you is going to commit you pretty strongly to this pot.

- If you lack the willingness to stick them in on ANY flop (either from "fear" or from lack of read info), but you still wish to take the "strength" of your KK into a smaller pot in hopes of trying to make more value, then a FLAT CALL of the 300 raise is probably better...at least that amount is only about 11.5% of your stack, and makes a fold a LOT cheaper.

- If you are going to re-raise any amount (for any of the multitude of reasons there are to RR here), then you are better served putting ALL your chips in immediately when your chances of holding the best hand is greatest.

- Don't let the results here fool you; simply because you would have LOST the hand does not mean you necessarily made a "good choice" BEFORE the Villain went all in. Afterall, you could have just as easily seen him holding Q9/QJ, and that jam was made BECAUSE you checked the A high flop, right?
 
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Wed Oct 19, 2011, 07:39 PM
(#5)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
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makes alot off sense. Think i need to go back to some reading
 

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