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Different way's of playing this

 
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Different way's of playing this - Fri Oct 21, 2011, 01:35 PM
(#1)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Not bothered how this hand turned out, but am interested in alternate ways of playing (and winning) this hand.

 
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Fri Oct 21, 2011, 01:47 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Limping in on a 14bb stack is bad. After a limper I'd probably shove over them. But definitely don't like limping, you can't afford to leak off chips on such a short stack.
 
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Fri Oct 21, 2011, 02:26 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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BronzeStar
If I was going to limp with it, I'd want more people in the pot. In this hand, I'd raise with it and then shove the flop, or get it in preflop.
 
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Fri Oct 21, 2011, 04:37 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
You are right at about 10 "M".

Harrington's M theory has this to say about your situation:

Yellow Zone:
Here your M is between 10 and 20. Loosen up now to stop the blinds eating away at your stack. Small pairs and suited connectors are less desirable now as your implied odds (chance of winning a big pot from a small investments) are lower.

If you consider that limping to set mine now costs you nearly 10% of your stack (outside of the blinds), it becomes rather easy to understand why you need to be entering pots AGGRESSIVELY; you simply do into have many "limp and looks" left in your stack.

A hand like 55 may well be the "best" hand pre-flop, but on almost every flop there will be at least 1 over card. This prevents you from feeling confident about betting (or jamming) on flops which you do not hold a set.

If you cannot enter aggressively, and then follow up that aggression in most situations, you really should be FOLDING.

See?
 
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Fri Oct 21, 2011, 08:03 PM
(#5)
ILuvPoker77's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 84
I'm no expert, but:

Setting the pre-flop limping issue aside, I think you may have had a good chance at taking down this pot simply by placing a bet. You were in position and it was checked to you on every street. Probably the time I would have taken a stab was when the flop was checked to me. Betting here is a good idea, because if you check behind the others on the flop, many other players are likely to recognize it as an orphan pot and take a stab at it before you get another chance to do so.

IMO these particular players were more passive than average, however, so you did get another chance.

That being the case, when the Q appeared on the turn and the others checked to you again, that would have been a very good time to bet -- chances are if they didn't bet, they don't have a queen, and if you do bet, they will assume you have a queen and fold.

This is a classic example of an orphan pot -- a pot nobody seems to want -- and more often than not, the person who wins an orphan pot is whoever took the first stab at it. When you bet at a pot that is checked to you, you have two ways to win -- showing down the best hand, or making everyone else fold. In this case, you would be hoping for a fold, because all you have is an underpair.

I don't know if the guy with the ten would have folded to you, but he might have, since he was so passive he didn't throw out a bet on the flop himself.

Whether he folds or not, I still think it would have been worth the risk of placing a bet, such as 2/3 of the pot, or even the pot, because more often than not in this situation, you are going to win the pot uncontested if you bet.
 
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Fri Oct 21, 2011, 09:13 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILuvPoker77 View Post
I'm no expert, but:

Setting the pre-flop limping issue aside, I think you may have had a good chance at taking down this pot simply by placing a bet. You were in position and it was checked to you on every street. Probably the time I would have taken a stab was when the flop was checked to me. Betting here is a good idea, because if you check behind the others on the flop, many other players are likely to recognize it as an orphan pot and take a stab at it before you get another chance to do so.

IMO these particular players were more passive than average, however, so you did get another chance.

That being the case, when the Q appeared on the turn and the others checked to you again, that would have been a very good time to bet -- chances are if they didn't bet, they don't have a queen, and if you do bet, they will assume you have a queen and fold.

This is a classic example of an orphan pot -- a pot nobody seems to want -- and more often than not, the person who wins an orphan pot is whoever took the first stab at it. When you bet at a pot that is checked to you, you have two ways to win -- showing down the best hand, or making everyone else fold. In this case, you would be hoping for a fold, because all you have is an underpair.

I don't know if the guy with the ten would have folded to you, but he might have, since he was so passive he didn't throw out a bet on the flop himself.

Whether he folds or not, I still think it would have been worth the risk of placing a bet, such as 2/3 of the pot, or even the pot, because more often than not in this situation, you are going to win the pot uncontested if you bet.
Excellent.
 
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Fri Oct 21, 2011, 11:35 PM
(#7)
ILuvPoker77's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 84
TY
 
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Sat Oct 22, 2011, 01:14 AM
(#8)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
As the saying goes.
IF THERE A CHECKING IM A BETTING.
 
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Sat Oct 22, 2011, 12:37 PM
(#9)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Thanks for input everyone, but two thoughts come to mind:

1) As JD pointed out, the an over card is going to come up, so if someone flops anything, I'm going to be boned, short of a 5 on river or turn (and thats too long a shot for me)

2) For me, with 10-20BB, 55 isn't shove range yet. For me, it's more sub 10BB. I might be short, but not quite that desperate. In terms 0f 10-20BB, with PP's, it really has to be 88 or better, really. Or should i consider extending it further than that though?

That's just my thinking anyway. Input always welcome and appreciated, regardless.
 
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Sat Oct 22, 2011, 12:39 PM
(#10)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
And if they're slow playing, for example, a set, or high pocket pairs? I've been caught out a few times like that.
 
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Sat Oct 22, 2011, 12:40 PM
(#11)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
You hit it spot on...sometimes baby pockets do not NEED to be played.
 
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Sat Oct 22, 2011, 12:46 PM
(#12)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocofsmeg View Post
And if they're slow playing, for example, a set, or high pocket pairs? I've been caught out a few times like that.
There aren't that many players that will slowplay it all along (especially turn/river, because they're losing value). They may slowplay it on the flop, but would want some sort of bet on the turn (either by making a bet or calling someone else's bet).
If you see one, make a note of it on that player. The ones that will, will do it over and over and if you have a note, it can be something you can look for with that particular player, but not with others.

If you check the flop and it gets to me on the turn on the button.. I'm making some sort of bet, if nothing else, to see where I'm at in the hand.
 

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