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AA facing over bet shove on a flushy board

 
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AA facing over bet shove on a flushy board - Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:59 PM
(#1)
Ibag123's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 37
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First hand on the tornament i had poket AA - dream start, the guy raised from middel position i reraised- he called, and he shoved the flop.

was that a cooler? should i fold ? "poket AA where will you go kindda thing"? good raise pre?

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Mon Oct 24, 2011, 06:04 PM
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is this a PSO tourney (with the PSO point system) or a normal mtt? I absolutely like the isolation re-raise preflop.

If it's a PSO tourney, the risk doesn't really match the reward (due to the negative point total you get if you lose)... so I'd fold to the shove on the flop.

If it's a std mtt, I'm calling it all day long.

Yes, that definitely is a cooler hand and the more monster hands that you get, the more coolers you'll see.
 
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Mon Oct 24, 2011, 06:18 PM
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Ibag123's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
is this a PSO tourney (with the PSO point system) or a normal mtt? I absolutely like the isolation re-raise preflop.

If it's a PSO tourney, the risk doesn't really match the reward (due to the negative point total you get if you lose)... so I'd fold to the shove on the flop.

If it's a std mtt, I'm calling it all day long.

Yes, that definitely is a cooler hand and the more monster hands that you get, the more coolers you'll see.
no, this is a standat Mtt.

ok well i guess i had no where to go - thank you :]
 
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Mon Oct 24, 2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibag123 View Post
no, this is a standat Mtt.

ok well i guess i had no where to go - thank you :]
I've had a whole lot worse beats with AA in the first hand. At least your opp flopped a set.
 
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over all i think it balnce up, i remember - Mon Oct 24, 2011, 06:26 PM
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Ibag123's Avatar
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Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I've had a whole lot worse beats with AA in the first hand. At least your opp flopped a set.
my self cracking poket aces more than a few times
 
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Mon Oct 24, 2011, 06:27 PM
(#6)
Ibag123's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I've had a whole lot worse beats with AA in the first hand. At least your opp flopped a set.
over all i think it balnce up, i remember my self cracking poket aces more than a few times
 
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Mon Oct 24, 2011, 06:36 PM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
is this a PSO tourney (with the PSO point system) or a normal mtt? I absolutely like the isolation re-raise preflop.

If it's a PSO tourney, the risk doesn't really match the reward (due to the negative point total you get if you lose)... so I'd fold to the shove on the flop.

If it's a std mtt, I'm calling it all day long.

Yes, that definitely is a cooler hand and the more monster hands that you get, the more coolers you'll see.
Yup, agree.

Looking at the results here, the way the villain played his hand displays a multitude of leaks.

Since loose call standards are one of them, you gotta put him on a wider range than "just" sets.
That is going to argue for you to insta-call him with your major over pair.

Since large over bets are another leak seen in the results, you gotta figure he has no clue how to extract value; that means it is likely he does the SAME with hands like AJ/QQ/KK or 2 diamond over cards even. Again that argues for an insta-call versus his likely Jam range.

Since it IS the very first hand, you may not know these things about this villain, but just the fact he DOES jam a nearly 3 times pot bet on the flop has got to say he really does NOT "want" a call. I am certainly NOT advocating looking at the results of this hand to say it was a good play, but there IS enough reason to think this is NOT a strong jam just by the way it played out. Why?

That jam is so "value owning" for the villain it is pathetic, and MUST be thought weak.
Consider...

The hands which might CALL this huge over-bet are pretty narrow.
They consist of J2, J8, 82, Td9d, 88, JJ, AA and MAYBE KK or AKd (I'm probably 50/50 folding KK to this jam with only 12.5% of my stack invested, and 64BB left after the fold, and i'm not staking my personal tourney life the villain is jamming "just" top pair to give me live over card outs to go with the nut flush draw...not without info).

Of these hands, only JJ, AA, KK, AKs, and MAYBE 88 are going to "fit" the pre-flop action.

Half that call range is AHEAD of his set of 2's, and half of it is behind...but again, KK is only a "sometimes" call on the first hand of an MTT with little invested, and I'm personally not taking the risk with AKs if I do not KNOW my over cards are probably good too.

With the above call range possibilities, how can he be value shoving?

So arriving at the conclusion this is a WEAK bet, made by someone who does not undersand the true strength of hands, is perfectly reasonable. Something like AJ or AQd/AKd is FAR more likely with a hugely value owning bet, than something like a set or 2 pairs.

The fact you ran into a moronic play made by a better hand does not change the fct that most of the time you SHOULD be ahead here...that makes this a cooler.

NOTE: The AQd/AKd chances are why I'd not call all the time even with KK; a villain holding those hands would have 2 shots at 12 outs to run me down (51.6%) once he is all in. You holding AA leaves him only 2 shots at 9 outs (38.7%), and that IS a risk I'm willing to fade here.

Last edited by JDean; Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 06:40 PM..
 
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Mon Oct 24, 2011, 09:55 PM
(#8)
ultramanAK's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 72
My 2cent opinion, if its a open league 1st hand with not much limper, i would have shove it in preflop.

Some of the so called PLAYER, dont really know how to play poker, the just register to Badbeat somebody, n having a good time on freeroll. If u think of trying to make them muck on the flop it would be like almost impossible especially 1st game on the tourney....

Good Luck...
 
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Tue Oct 25, 2011, 12:03 AM
(#9)
Ibag123's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 37
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
Yup, agree.

Looking at the results here, the way the villain played his hand displays a multitude of leaks.

Since loose call standards are one of them, you gotta put him on a wider range than "just" sets.
That is going to argue for you to insta-call him with your major over pair.

Since large over bets are another leak seen in the results, you gotta figure he has no clue how to extract value; that means it is likely he does the SAME with hands like AJ/QQ/KK or 2 diamond over cards even. Again that argues for an insta-call versus his likely Jam range.

Since it IS the very first hand, you may not know these things about this villain, but just the fact he DOES jam a nearly 3 times pot bet on the flop has got to say he really does NOT "want" a call. I am certainly NOT advocating looking at the results of this hand to say it was a good play, but there IS enough reason to think this is NOT a strong jam just by the way it played out. Why?

That jam is so "value owning" for the villain it is pathetic, and MUST be thought weak.
Consider...

The hands which might CALL this huge over-bet are pretty narrow.
They consist of J2, J8, 82, Td9d, 88, JJ, AA and MAYBE KK or AKd (I'm probably 50/50 folding KK to this jam with only 12.5% of my stack invested, and 64BB left after the fold, and i'm not staking my personal tourney life the villain is jamming "just" top pair to give me live over card outs to go with the nut flush draw...not without info).

Of these hands, only JJ, AA, KK, AKs, and MAYBE 88 are going to "fit" the pre-flop action.

Half that call range is AHEAD of his set of 2's, and half of it is behind...but again, KK is only a "sometimes" call on the first hand of an MTT with little invested, and I'm personally not taking the risk with AKs if I do not KNOW my over cards are probably good too.

With the above call range possibilities, how can he be value shoving?

So arriving at the conclusion this is a WEAK bet, made by someone who does not undersand the true strength of hands, is perfectly reasonable. Something like AJ or AQd/AKd is FAR more likely with a hugely value owning bet, than something like a set or 2 pairs.

The fact you ran into a moronic play made by a better hand does not change the fct that most of the time you SHOULD be ahead here...that makes this a cooler.

NOTE: The AQd/AKd chances are why I'd not call all the time even with KK; a villain holding those hands would have 2 shots at 12 outs to run me down (51.6%) once he is all in. You holding AA leaves him only 2 shots at 9 outs (38.7%), and that IS a risk I'm willing to fade here.
got it :] thank you very much !
 

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