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Another way to play AK I suppose

 
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Another way to play AK I suppose - Sat Oct 29, 2011, 05:30 PM
(#1)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Hi guys
This was 14th hand of mine into an Open league game
I had pegged the BB and UTG as loose players , playing Ax Kx Jx and Tx hands
So taking Dave's advice I played this one a little different than the one I posted a few days ago



 
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Sat Oct 29, 2011, 06:01 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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I like the preflop raise to try and get rid of some of the opps. If you put the opp as an Ax player, I also like the call on the flop, as you don't know if they hit 2 pair with their second card. I also like raising the turn, because you could easily have the best hand..... and if the opp doesn't have two pair, it can get them to make a smaller bet on the river, as it did. That way they don't shove the river, which makes a very sticky sitaution for you... do they have 2 pair or a flush????

You still can win a good pot from it, but if they did have Ax for two pair, it also leaves you with a very playable stack. Good job Spike!
 
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Sun Oct 30, 2011, 12:07 AM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I guess after 14 hands we can have a read but not sure how much faith i would put in it.

Grade b
 
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Sun Oct 30, 2011, 07:18 AM
(#4)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
I guess after 14 hands we can have a read but not sure how much faith i would put in it.

Grade b

I believe in my game
 
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Sun Oct 30, 2011, 10:44 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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making notes on players help. Ax players or any 2 suited players were something that I always make a note on. That way, if I ever see them again early in a tournament, I have that information available and can make the appropriate play based on it.
 
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Tue Nov 01, 2011, 11:54 PM
(#6)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Was really hoping Dave would have responded
Just for his comments and input
Which imo are priceless

 
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Wed Nov 02, 2011, 07:39 AM
(#7)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike8998 View Post
Was really hoping Dave would have responded
Just for his comments and input
Which imo are priceless

send him a PM oh wait...
 
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Wed Nov 02, 2011, 09:59 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I like the preflop raise to try and get rid of some of the opps. If you put the opp as an Ax player, I also like the call on the flop, as you don't know if they hit 2 pair with their second card. I also like raising the turn, because you could easily have the best hand..... and if the opp doesn't have two pair, it can get them to make a smaller bet on the river, as it did. That way they don't shove the river, which makes a very sticky sitaution for you... do they have 2 pair or a flush????

You still can win a good pot from it, but if they did have Ax for two pair, it also leaves you with a very playable stack. Good job Spike!

Not sure I agree with all of this... spikes play didn't influence the action to go down the way it did, the villain's hand strength did. If the guy had 2 pair, all of his chips would have been in the middle on the turn after spike raised.

Preflop I like raising, I think I would have raised a bit more here though, something like 280-320 (3.5-4x instead of 3x). I would increase it a bit because of the loose limper, in an effort to isolate, and to set up a better stack to pot ratio for post flop play should we hit an A or K, so we can more easily be committed and not get stuck in a tough spot.

On the flop, I think the call is ok, he makes a large bet (basically pot sized) which generally looks pretty strong, if he's got just an ace we're way ahead and keep him from folding if he's "trying to see where he's at" lol. If he's got 2 pair+ we're just going to get it in raising. One thing about this spot, if we feel like we should be committed to playing for stacks, then raising the flop isn't bad, but whether we should raise or call to maximize value is kind of opponent dependent and we don't have any info to go on really with 14 hands. The impression is he's loose, but loose-aggressive or loose-passive? Either way I think calling is fine with him making such a big bet relative to the pot, we can get stacks in with 3 streets if we want.

On the turn, I assume we only raise because we're committed (so we're not folding to a 3b shove) and we think the villain will call with worse. If this is our thought though, we should raise more than just min, in the event he's got a flush draw this raise is actually giving him a correct price to draw at us (5.75-1, with 8-1 implied). If the guy is bluffy or will fold weaker aces to a shove, then I'd prefer to just call the turn. If not, then I think our raise should be all in. This would give him just under 2.3-1 which is not a good price for a flush draw (he may call anyway if he's bad, but that's fine... and if he folds a draw that's fine too, as the pot is already large). I think this is good because there are a lot of combo hands in his range that he probably won't fold on the turn. Combo straight plus flush draws are possible, A5/A6, and since the ace of spades is still out, he can have top pair+FD combos too. All of those are getting it in with you on the turn and are now a dog to your hand.

As played, I like the river call of the small bet. It really looks like a blocking bet and I think we have the best hand more often than not... if it were a cash game I would shove for thin value vs. a loose opponent knowing they will call with worse aces since that's what this bet looks like. But it's a tourney and if we call we leave ourselves 23 bb's if we're wrong, so I think passing the thin value to preserve tourney life when wrong makes sense as we can still work with a 23bb stack.

Dave
 
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Wed Nov 02, 2011, 10:07 AM
(#9)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
I guess after 14 hands we can have a read but not sure how much faith i would put in it.

Grade b
How reliable the read is depends a lot on what we've seen imo. For example:

-If they've played 6 of 14 hands they're probably loose, but it's not a rock solid read.
-If they've played 12 of 14 hands, that's a pretty good read I'd say.
-If the very first hand they limped UTG, called a raise, and ended up showing down 75s on a K97Q3 board, then I'd say loose is a pretty solid read.
 
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Thu Nov 03, 2011, 02:29 AM
(#10)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Thanks Dave
Inspired response as usual and plenty of fat to chew over in my head
 
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Thu Nov 03, 2011, 01:35 PM
(#11)
ketchup143's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 279
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im raising on the river, even with just one pair. if ur opponent had a two pair, i would imagine he was just calling ur turn minraise to set u up for a big bet on the river, but he manages is a piddly 320 bet. i see this all the time--people making stupid river value blocking bets with hands that are obviously beat. if he had a two pair or better im sure he would shove the river, and u have the best one pair hand other than that i would have done everything that dave said
 

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