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Does anyone ever win at Micros

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Does anyone ever win at Micros - Mon Nov 07, 2011, 03:15 AM
(#1)
miiione's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 15
I have been playing at micro stakes for over a year now. Reading new books, watching videos basically dedicating all my spare time to learning the game, however, I feel that micros is like being stuck in quicksand. No matter what you do or try, you will only sink in deeper.

The reason I like cash games is because MTT require a lot of time and my daily life does not allow me long playing hours. But I have noticed that I am only bleeding chips aka my money. It's really frustrating even after you spend time learning the game, I must have watched almost all micro videos by TheLangolier and felix and some of them I have watched more than twice. I even have a notebook where I take notes to go through the concepts etc later. But agrrrrrhhhh nothing man... I tend to win small and loose big & 8 out of 10 times I get my money in with the best of it. And trust me this is not variance... god for over a year.. if this is variance, I guess its after me with a vengeance. I can't even remember when I sucked out on someone else... its like the rest of teh world is out there to suck out on me...

Is there anyone out there who has made it out of micros? or most of us are just bleeding away our bankroll. in order to even show a profit @ PS, you really need a win rate of at least 1.5BB/100 - thats just to break even.

I am sure there are people who made it out of micros, but I really need to vent my spleen. Anyone else in the same boat?? or is there anyone out there who was in the same boat and made it out of micors and have a story to share..
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 04:35 AM
(#2)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
If you think you are getting it in with the best of it, try doing something bigger.

For one I hate micro's because the skill level is so low they will luck you out anyway, for example in the $1,50 50fifty they tend to go all-in with pretty much any high pair. In the $3,50 They will do that with two pair, a set or if they think you are bluffing.

samen with NL2/NL5 to NL10, skill level increases very much so that you can play normal poker instead of playing against all-in donks because its just change.
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 06:03 AM
(#3)
ultramanAK's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 72
I agree that grinding micro is really hard, as you dont often cant make a play against your opponent such as bluff. I recommend you read some of JDean article http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/?idblog=1382 which i found it useful.

I personally play a lot of NL2 at past, like you i always win little n lose a bunch, so i decide to try other game to grind with, now that i play PLO i find it more easier to grind compare with NL. Maybe u can try that or you might just play Sng $1.5 or even better $3.5 which i play it regularly to practice my no limit holdem.

So good luck with your grinding.... Cheer!
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 07:04 AM
(#4)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Hey Ultra,

Sorry to hear you are struggling but you are doing the right thing watching Felix and Lango videos and training. I along with Ahar are also doing 2 nl live training as we are learning cash so come find our sessions and see what we can help you with.
In addition I have always been a micro sng grinder adn can play games from 9 man to 45 mans in 1 hr to 2 1/2 hrs and i multi table. I have been making good profits and am now at the $7 sng level.
Come watch some sessions and follow others that have joined us in doing the same thing. I also have a Cowboy's Challenge in the Blog's , Acheivemnets section so come have a look.

Gidee Up!
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 09:15 AM
(#5)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Try the 90 man s&g at 25c buy in
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 11:04 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miiione View Post
I have been playing at micro stakes for over a year now. Reading new books, watching videos basically dedicating all my spare time to learning the game, however, I feel that micros is like being stuck in quicksand. No matter what you do or try, you will only sink in deeper.

The reason I like cash games is because MTT require a lot of time and my daily life does not allow me long playing hours. But I have noticed that I am only bleeding chips aka my money. It's really frustrating even after you spend time learning the game, I must have watched almost all micro videos by TheLangolier and felix and some of them I have watched more than twice. I even have a notebook where I take notes to go through the concepts etc later. But agrrrrrhhhh nothing man... I tend to win small and loose big & 8 out of 10 times I get my money in with the best of it. And trust me this is not variance... god for over a year.. if this is variance, I guess its after me with a vengeance. I can't even remember when I sucked out on someone else... its like the rest of teh world is out there to suck out on me...

Is there anyone out there who has made it out of micros? or most of us are just bleeding away our bankroll. in order to even show a profit @ PS, you really need a win rate of at least 1.5BB/100 - thats just to break even.

I am sure there are people who made it out of micros, but I really need to vent my spleen. Anyone else in the same boat?? or is there anyone out there who was in the same boat and made it out of micors and have a story to share..
Playing in deep stacked (100bb+) cash games is a totally different beast from MTT's. Right off the bat the statement that you tend to win small and lose big, and 8 out of 10 times get your money in with the best of it indicates to me that you may be struggling with commitment decisions, and playing too large of pots/committing stacks with hand strengths that don't always warrant it. Strong 1 pair hands for instance, on certain board textures and against certain opponents, are very good at winning small and medium sized pots but don't fair so well in large ones. I have a class coming up this Thursday on Playing Premiums in microstakes which might help as we'll covering this type of stuff.

Also what I would suggest is, pick 2 or 3 recent sessions that you found particularly troubling, and send them in for a Live Training review, I'd be happy to do a review for you, and that should provide additional insight as to what's going on. Send me a PM if you want to do this.

Thanks,
Dave
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 02:26 PM
(#7)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Playing in deep stacked (100bb+) cash games is a totally different beast from MTT's. Right off the bat the statement that you tend to win small and lose big, and 8 out of 10 times get your money in with the best of it indicates to me that you may be struggling with commitment decisions, and playing too large of pots/committing stacks with hand strengths that don't always warrant it. Strong 1 pair hands for instance, on certain board textures and against certain opponents, are very good at winning small and medium sized pots but don't fair so well in large ones. I have a class coming up this Thursday on Playing Premiums in microstakes which might help as we'll covering this type of stuff.

Also what I would suggest is, pick 2 or 3 recent sessions that you found particularly troubling, and send them in for a Live Training review, I'd be happy to do a review for you, and that should provide additional insight as to what's going on. Send me a PM if you want to do this.

Thanks,
Dave

Dear Miiione,

Dave did a review of one of my STT's it was great to see and have to ask the question of why did you do that there.

I too have watched the videos and attend some of the live trainings, you need to see how they all fit together on the table.

If you can't beat the luck boxes in the micros through making correct plays then the higher stakes will crush you too.

(in my experiance) for the first time in 7 years i am actually winning over a period of 3 months.

i have losing weeks and winning weeks (last was a losing one!) but the wins are above the loses finally.

Grade b
 
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Mon Nov 07, 2011, 04:59 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
The answer to your question is most dont win at the micros,all you need to do is look at the stats of those that tell you opposite.

The investment and patience leave a lot of players lacking in the skill department.
 
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Thank you Everyone for the insight - Mon Nov 07, 2011, 11:05 PM
(#9)
miiione's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 15
I will definitely send my HH's to Dave from a session + some hands. I mostly play 50NL - but I guess although I play a TAG style, I am usually lost after the flop. It seems that everyone against me always seem to have a hand. But thank you for all the suggestions.

@19honu62 - thank you for your suggestion, I already play some of SnG and am sometimes able to beat $7 buy-ins - $3.5 & $1.5 are mostly OK as well. I do balance my game between SnGs and 50NL.

Its usually the 50NL that takes its toll on me. Unfortunately I cannot attend any live training sessions due to time zones, but I do watch them at a later date.

@IseeCookies - thank you - your story is encouraging and inspirational.

Ideally I would like to be a cash game player, as it fits the lifestyle, but the glory and glamour of MTTs is difficult to ignore as well. I like cash games, as I feel they train you better in reading hands.

How do I get in touch with Dave to send me HH's??
 
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Tue Nov 08, 2011, 12:08 AM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miiione View Post
How do I get in touch with Dave to send me HH's??
PM sent.
 
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Tue Nov 08, 2011, 01:21 AM
(#11)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by miiione View Post

@IseeCookies - thank you - your story is encouraging and inspirational.

Thats what Im here for inspiration.

Better than sugarcoating it and saying any one can beat the micros,its not true!

"Some people you just cant reach.."
Cool hand Luke
 
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Tue Nov 08, 2011, 01:45 PM
(#12)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
Profiting in micros is just a matter of using the right bait and catching those easy fish. Don't let them slip away now

 
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Tue Nov 08, 2011, 04:33 PM
(#13)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Brag... and answer to your question. This graph shows roughly 100,000 hands played from Febuary 2011 up to Black Friday in April. Played 2NL and 5NL 6max cash multitabling 9-12 tables(no HUD).



Yes plenty of people show profit at micros and higher limits as well.

ps. that dive in the graph to the orange dot was a horrific variance swing at the 5NL tables. Have an old blog post describing that day.
 
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Tue Nov 08, 2011, 06:40 PM
(#14)
Deleted user
This is my view of this topic.

To beat the micros means that you are no longer in the micros.
To achieve this would mean you are properly rolled and now beating a higher level.
For cash I say 50NL,for MTTs I say Lower limit and higher which is $5+!

Most people dont have what it takes to push themselves out of the micros.
I have read and talked to a lot of good players and the time they invest is always on par with the amount they play that day. They play 4 hours they study close to the same amount of time.
How many people want it that bad here? I know one player here that I would put in that category
and he obviously is putting the energy he put into poker into his schooling. Panickypoker had that drive and I watched him learn the game at a amazing rate of speed.

Its not a easy road as to many people make it seem and it shouldnt be this way.
Truth should be told to people from the start,that is going to take a lot of hands to get better.
The micros are not beatable like they where 6 years ago. Everyone is using a hud and the forums
are public knowledge.Besides the economy has taken a hit around the world,so who is throwing money at the screen like the good old days.
 
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Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:00 AM
(#15)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Miiione,

Micros are beatable if you work hard to accomplish it ................as is being proven by several people in the Cowboy's Challenge. I have been playing poker online for about 3 1/2 yrs now and have watched alot of video and had alot of hand analysis done. I have a great coach and all this has helped me crush the micros.
YOU CAN DO IT TOO! Don't let anyone tell you different. But you need to work hard as in anything else! Nothing comes easy!

Gidee Up!
 
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Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:48 AM
(#16)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Micros are beatable; Honu, Ahar and others are a testament to that.

However I believe that you may be playing 2NL, either full ring or 6max, and there has been a sea change at this level since I first started playing here.

Micro levels for cash (2NL, 5NL and 10NL) are my bread and butter. I am by no means a winning player but I win enough to keep my bankroll positive, and play some tournies and SnGs into the bargain.

A year ago it was easy to win at 2 NL( both 6max and full ring) but things have really changed beyond recognition: beating 2NL is not as easy as it used to be; it has become too freeroll like with multiple opponents playing and calling with ATC, and I mean multiple.


Personally, I still play 2NL but find that anything beyond simplistic i.ei. holding the best hand maybe not enough and can be called and sucked out.

I have found that moving up to 5NL,10NL etc etc etc gives a more positive result from playing the way i have been taught on the forum; playing that way at 2NL just leads to small pots and folds.

I am not suggesting that anyone play like a robot, thinking and working out what is the right move at any level entails years of progressive and ongoing learning.

The thing is all the tools you need are in the forum, live training, videos and library. It is up to each member, each guest, to take that info and put it to the best use.

If you are giving it a real go there is a huge amount of support, not only from trainers, hand analysis folks, but from the rank and file users (some of whom are unable to play real Poker), to make your game better and make it profitable.

Where else would you get that for free on the internet? I can tell you ... nowhere!!!

You are in the right place and if there is any semblance of Poker or a Star in you, PSO and it's members can help make it a reality.

Even if you do not reach the dizzy heights, you have a community, a group of friends and a forum that will make all your endeavours worthwhile.


Cheers,

TC
 
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Wed Nov 09, 2011, 10:33 AM
(#17)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Yeah 2NL has changed a ton over the last couple of years. So has the rest of poker though. True story - 2.5 years ago I would actually sometimes play six 2NL 6max tables at a time, drunk(yay college), not really caring about it too much and I would profit easily. Talking like $4-$10 a night profit after a couple hours. In 2011 though, even playing sober, my exploit the huge mistakes of the mega donks strategy failed miserably. Played break even at best.

That strategy was far too simple for the 2011 poker world, even at its lowest level. Luckily I had been studying the game for several years already so I just needed a push in the right direction more than anything. As you can see in the graph, that time came in February. That is when I discovered the PSO, Nanonoko and his playstyle (learned of him from PSO), doubled my bankroll from free leagues that month, and just all around started taking a more serious approach to online no limit holdem. I took advantage of the all the free videos, tried to make it to a bunch of Langolier's live training sessions, read the forums daily, and hit up the hand analysis section so often I ended up getting recommended to be on the analysis team.

The biggest changes in my 2NL strategy was having much higher aggression preflop. Rarely limp, call raises tightly, and open raise with almost all of the hands that I am willing to play. Also, I finally realized that double barrel and triple barrel bluffing is never ever a good idea at 2NL. If your going to get to the river, be prepared to need some showdown value as many players don't like to fold. Theres still tons of bad play at 2NL, but sitting around half asleep waiting for someone to slip up big simply won't make you money anymore.

On a side note, agree with Cookies, there is a huge difference between winning within the micros and beating the micros. Relatively speaking, winning at 2NL takes very little effort and winning enough at 50NL to jump up to midstakes takes a MASSIVE amount of effort.

Hope all of our responses help point you in the right direction. Will leave you with one more bit of advice. Please, always remember to enjoy yourself while playing poker. Winning or not, if you can't have any fun your efforts won't be worth it.
 
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Thank You ALL - Fri Nov 11, 2011, 12:51 AM
(#18)
miiione's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 15
@IseeCookies | @19honu62 | @topthecat

Guys what can I say... thank you so much for your support and encouragement. You have no idea how much difference does it make get this encouragement. I am motivated already. I am putting in a lot of effort and the massive effort required to beat this game. I have now committed to alternate between my sessions and study, as I only have so many hours in a day. It may take me longer to get there, but I will get there. I am sending in my HH to Dave today and just cant wait for the analysis - actually, what Dave is going to do is show me the mirror.

@Da Sens Fan - really like your fish gif.

I totally agree with topthecat - PSO is the best place to learn for free and after this post & the encouragement I have received, I am convinced and determined to crush the micros.

Thank you so much.
 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 10:14 AM
(#19)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Spent like 20 minutes on my last post. Didn't literally address it towards you, but tried squeezing in a lot of micros advice and perspective to point you in the right direction. Feel like I wasted my time after being completely ignored haha
 
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@RockerguyAA - Fri Nov 11, 2011, 10:57 AM
(#20)
miiione's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 15
I am so extremely sorry... can't believe I missed you. I am very thankful to you as well for helping me put things in perspective. I sincerely apologies for missing you out, although I was being careful and making sure that I mentioned everyone who helped and contributed. & the graph you showed, only strengthens my belief that it can be done. Really appreciate it.
 

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