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Fold Burnout.....

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Fold Burnout..... - Fri Nov 11, 2011, 09:50 AM
(#1)
BandShooter's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 111
Hey Folks,

I guess this is the right area to be posting this. It's not so much of a question, as maybe a discussion topic, but here we go.

I think I'm tired of folding. lol. I know this sounds silly, but let me explain. I've been playing the PSO alot this month. I mean, every day so far. at least 2-3 of them every day. Now, I don't know if my strategy in the PSO is correct, but does have me sitting in the top 500 right now, so I guess it kind of working. Basically my strategy is to NOT PLAY ANYTHING! Well, that's going a little far, but close. When I can keep it in check, I play nothing but A's and K's until we're down to at least 2500 players left from a full field. The only exception to this is if I'm the BB and it checks down to me and the flop hits me hard. There have been a few times when I've gone outside of this pattern because a situation felt right, and that has both helped occationally, and crushed me on other times.

So anyway, as one might assume from this style of play, I'm FOLDING A LOT!!!! And I think it's drained me. I'm pretty sure it's drained me because I'm starty to make some bad plays in the other tourney's I'm in.

Anyway. Just wondering if this happens to anyone else, and if so, what did you/do you do to get over it. I mean, if it's not fun, why play right? But if you play like garbage, then that ain't fun either.

So there it is. Have at 'er.

L8r,
 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 10:02 AM
(#2)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
Just a heads up for u straight away, if u dont like the ammount of folding in the PSO, never play big MTT's because you gonna fold alot more in there.

Its either fold or try to double up with AA or KK occasionally AK if ur in position, limp in with small pairs to see if u hit a set. and thats it. after a loooong looong time mostly after the bubble you can start to play a bit looser.

I have entered the big 5.50 some weeks ago. I went out in 147 i believe after a grand total of 7 hours! while the field was as big as a PSO league. And guess what I used the same tactic as in the PSO fold fold fold fold. untill after the bubble.

If you like to play more hands you should try the 50fiftys they dont take that long and you only have to fold for the first 10-30 mins so you can go blind stealing and chip up really fast after 6-8 players are left.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 12:43 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
The more people in a tourney, the more you'll need to fold. Before I played my first live MTT, I got a piece of advice from someone that, the more and more I play... the more it's true.

"It's not to know when TO play a hand, but to win tourneys, the secret is to learn when to fold"
 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 02:18 PM
(#4)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Let the old hedgehog preface his comment by saying he is American, so I cannot play in the current PSO. However, let me emphasize what others are saying. For the Open League, the prime requirements are clock killing and the fold. The following are my observations from play before Black Friday.





When we Americans could play, these same tactics had to be employed. If you check, the better players folded an average of 80% of their hands. If you went deep in those games, 1,500 players, you might play all of thirty hands if you made it into positive points and under forty to make the money.

Today, your field is close to ten thousand. If you want practice with the selectiveness of play, try the astrology freerolls as a testing area. Play these with the intention of keeping your hand play percentage below twenty-five percent. In the astrology games, that will get you into the top two thousand in a field of nine thousand. Once you have mastered the idea of hand selection, add the clock killer tactics and you'll move even higher.

As others have said, MTT strategy relies on selection. Get in any tourney where the players are above average and you'll find most hands are folded in the early stages. For an idea how tight a MTT is playing, check out the number of players eliminated at the end of each round to other tourneys you play. You'll find the percentage is lower the higher the quality of play.

I'm sure much of your frustration is based on the action at your table. If your luck is like mine was in the PSO, there is one buffoon who is pushing all-in with trash, and winning. Or you have the player who has the golden horseshoe, catching whatever is needed every flop. Resist the urge to tangle with these guys unless you have a Group One hand. Even then, be aware of your table position.

MTT and the PSO are two different games. The PSO encourages the maniacs by waving the free money banner. Such players go for the quick kill because television has convinced them the all-in play is the only way hold'em is played. In the MTT, your objective is making the money. In the PSO, it is positive points. Be sure you act like the turtle, and not the hare. If the current version of PSO is anything like the old one, the maniacs will be down to a few at the second break. Since you make positive points sometime after this break, playing cautious will have you advance.

You asked a valid question in the beginning. Our membership has highlighted the best strategy if you desire points in the PSO and if you want to make the money in MTT. They also pointed out where you should play if you want a higher percentage of hands played. Yet you'll find that even in these games, hand selection is crucial. The difference is your range can be expanded.

That is perhaps the hardest thing about MTT, selecting an appropriate hand range. If yours is too wide, you expose yourself to too many losing hands because the other player is too selective. Make your range too tight and you miss far too many opportunities. Learning when to expand and when to remain tight is what separates the Premier League from the Open.

So start recording the information on the site regarding hands played. If you see your percentages going over the target, tighten up your play. The idea is to find the best opportunity against a player with the second-best hand and exploiting his play. Just be aware that sometimes you'll be thinking best and holding less. It is, after all is said, a learning experience in the PSO.
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 09:48 PM
(#5)
2edgar's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 34
(Moderator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandShooter View Post

So anyway, as one might assume from this style of play, I'm FOLDING A LOT!!!! And I think it's drained me. I'm pretty sure it's drained me because I'm starty to make some bad plays in the other tourney's I'm in.

Anyway. Just wondering if this happens to anyone else, and if so, what did you/do you do to get over it. I mean, if it's not fun, why play right? But if you play like garbage, then that ain't fun either.

So there it is. Have at 'er.

L8r,
folding a lot and the temptations to play garbage hands, it depends, in the league its best to play tight and fold alot like u say. For me since im slightly on the unorthodox side, If i knew the players were tight I would raise them as a bluff and cbet the flop with any garbage hands, if they call well then its an easy fold...and an even easier way to loose chips which makes it a fine balance between fun and feeling guilty lol, but you wont get away with this so easily in the league games since everyone calls you anyways, maybee just have a little play money game on the side and call and raise to your hearts content =)

but dont listen to me I am no pro, stick to the basics play tight and just think about folding a lot as an investment in long term fun where u get to cash out at a later date.
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 10:47 PM
(#6)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
I once tried something I called the "Super tight experiment" in an MTT (non PSO), and to my complete surprise, I placed easily using this same strategy. I folded everything except AA, KK, QQ and AK until I got under 10 BB. At that point I shoved any reasonable hand (any A, K, Q, with any remotely connected card, any pair, any suited connectors 3 gap or less..

Granted, I got lucky a couple of times when I was a SS, but at that point I was already ITM. This strategy is very useful in large MTTs, and the patience it teaches you is invaluable. The moral of the story, learning to fold lots is a valuable skill.

 
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Tue Nov 15, 2011, 06:31 AM
(#7)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Hey Bandshooter,

I went through a similar experience in the PSO Open League where the fold and burn strategy was beginning to take it out of me and affecting my play in other MTTs and SNGs.

I was either playing too nitty or like a maniac. I decided to go back to basics, went through all the courses and realised that what was lacking was the discipline and self control to adapt to different scenarios, that I had reached a stage in my poker development where I needed a complete overhaul.

I cut down on PSO, started playing more cash, which I really enjoy and used winnings to experiment in MTTs and SNGs. I set myself a target in October in the Premier League to play the minimum amount of five games, get in the top 500, and earn 150 VPPs. I ended up scoring 1595 points and finishing 449th and got my 150VPP for November.

I would love to have the patience for SNGs and MTTs, I would love to be able to play twenty tables at a time, and these are objectives that I am trying to work towards but for me as an individual playing cash suits my personality and my short attention span. When I realise that I am losing my patience I just leave the table.

Can we learn to become patient and disciplined? I think so, which is why I still play formats rather than cash, it is an ongoing part of my poker development and maybe development as an individual.

50/50s are a good idea as Tiber says and Omaha PL or Hi/Lo provides a lot of action as well.

As far as the Open League is concerned, I am convinced like the Old PSO, it is possible to get into the top 500, playing less than 30 games, and I know from experience that that is possible. It is still an excellent platform to develop your game, but you will feel a much greater sense of achievement if you can achieve your goals playing a limited number of games, plus you will not feel the effects of burnout as much.

I envy those that have the time, the discipline and the work ethic to play 4,5,6 games a day in either the Open or the Premier Leagues. For some of us though that schedule is not possible and indeed for some of us it can be detrimental to our play. You just have to come up with a schedule that best fits you as an individual, and that ensures you play at an optimum, and off course enjoy the experience.

I would also open up the range a little more; maybe 10s plus all positions and A,10 x through A,K in late position. A deep run will make a big difference to your points gain, and it is really much more difficult, although not impossible, to make a deep run if you get into the top 1000 with a relatively short stack.

I hope the advice is of some help and that you can work your way through the lull you are in at the moment.

Cheers,

TC
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 01:52 PM
(#8)
Idanmel's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 18
Wow, this post has a lot of excellent advice!

For some strange reason I find folding all the time in PSO to be entertaining... Isn't it somewhat fun just to sit back, watch the other players push and shove and make points by stalling?

For me, this is my first time playing in the PSO... I started the first few games too loose, but than I realized my mistake and I am on a good run at the moment. I think I will be able to reach the top 500 in about 35 games.

Thanks again for all the valuable information here, and good luck in the league!

Btw - I'm posting this while folding on PSO
 

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