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Aggressive play

 
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Aggressive play - Fri Nov 11, 2011, 04:23 PM
(#1)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
So here's the scenario
24 left in a 90 man SnG
I'd seen the player on my left limping in in any position with low to mid pocket pairs
So I decided if I hit anything on the flop to play the hand aggressively
Your thoughts please



 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 07:23 PM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike8998 View Post
So here's the scenario
24 left in a 90 man SnG
I'd seen the player on my left limping in in any position with low to mid pocket pairs
So I decided if I hit anything on the flop to play the hand aggressively
Your thoughts please



The first thing I'd ask about this hand is this:

PRE-FLOP...

When you enter in MP with a hand like QTs, who ELSE besides the villain you have a read on might be likely to come along?
What types of hands will THEY be likely to call your limp with?
What types of flops would you "need" to see in order to play QTs "aggressively" if you had OTHERS in the hand, besides the person about whom you have a solid read?

Your decision process starts pre flop, BEFORE you know who may (or may not) stick around to see the flop.
That is also when you should start formulating a "plan" for what you want to do in the hand, and also what you need to see in order to pull the trigger on your intended action.

Granted, your "plan" is in a nascent form until the action completes, but I will say MP open limps pre-flop are generally NOT a good idea unless you are entirely CLEAR about the sort of flop you want or "need" to see to keep going, or if you are entirely sure of what action you will take depending upon the action behind you. You greatly EXAPAND your range of possible flop "moves" by entering for a RAISE, and especially when you are attempting to play a "trouble hand" like QTs, this can be important to your overall chances of a favorable outcome.

A couple of q's for you as you reach the flop, and you know who your opponents are:

1) When you say you were going to play "aggressively" if you hit anything, does that imply you feel you would be VALUE BETTING any pair you'd spike with a QT?

The is not a "bad" thought, but you may well be putting too much creedence in a very narrow "read" on the opponent, and over looking other things he may have.
You've also allowed the BB to "stick around" in the hand; have you considered how a 2nd pair/strong medium kicker hand will play against HIM?

Because the BB has been allowed to play too, I really must COMMEND you on checking your flop "hit", and not beginning aggressive action immediately.
This check buys you "relative postion" against the player upon whom you have your read, and that allows you to clarify what the BB might have BEFORE you go adding chips to the pot.

Again though, the "need" to check for relative position was largely brought about by your non-raise pre-flop, and the possibly '"free card" which could result from your check may result in someone spiking a BETTER HAND than what you currently hold. I would much prefer to have raised pre myself, and make a pretty "standard" type C-Bet on my marginal flop hit, and take down the pot IMMEDIATELY, rather than be forced by circumstances into the line you "had" to take here.

(Note: if you had a strong open limp image, you may still have been able to bet the flop, but the risk of being raised or check/raised may have cost you that initial investment, as well as the hand).

2) What if you are "wrong" in your read of this hand, or even if you are RIGHT in your read, what if the villain has 44/22?

You got exactly what you wanted: you check to the limper with position on you resulted in a BET, and that bet got you HU on the person you have a read on. BUT...

Did you see your stack size, and calculate the EXTENT of your aggression before you started it?
How many "bullets" can you fire, and how large can those bullets be, before you reach a committment point and must "live or die" on the value of your holding alone?

Even if you have a plan to be "aggressive" on any hit you make after entering with a marginal MP hand, you really should have a plan of action "in case" the villain out flops you. You really should be aware of how FAR you are willing to take your aggression, before you start it.

I am not saying you did not have an idea of that answer Spike, I merely am pointing out soemthign which "should" be thought about any time you are attempting an exploitatve line.

Now...

The biggest "issue" I have with your play here is pre-flop.

QTs in MP is not an ideal hand to play, because it will tend to flop 1 pair hands that can get into "trouble" because of kicker issues and/or overcard issues.
As such, on the depth of money you have here, it MAY be preferable to RAISE on entering, so you can represent a wider range of flop "hits", and to lend strength to any continuation action you may make.

As played, this really feels more like a nicely timed SEMI-BLUFF (to a kicker draw) made on the 3rd club "scare card" to represent the flush, and not really a "value bet" in terms of exploiting an opponent who will play small to medium pp. This is completely FINE, especially if you have an "image" of pretty tight play, and of showing down very strong hands, assuming of course your opponents are even aware of your image.

So all in all Spike, according to your post here, I think you played the hand pretty well once you got into an exploitable situation. All I would suggest is that you begin your aggression a little EARLIER (pre flop), so you do not have to rely on the actiosn of OTHERS to "create" an exploitabl situation for you.

Good job.
 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 08:07 PM
(#3)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,508
I would have another look at this hand if I were you JD, He didn't check the flop, he bet it and the guy to his left raised him, then he called.

Or have I just watched a different hand play out ?

 
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Fri Nov 11, 2011, 08:27 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
I would have another look at this hand if I were you JD, He didn't check the flop, he bet it and the guy to his left raised him, then he called.

Or have I just watched a different hand play out ?

You are correct sir!

The min bet is not good at all, since it accomplishes nothing really, except investing yourself more deeply that you need to be. UNLESS...

It could serve the purpose of appearing to be a "blocker bet", the type of bet made with a flush draw, and it was made with the express intent of bluffing hard on a 3rd club turn. To be honest, a play like that would be very "tricky", and unless your opponents are VERY "skilled" at reading the "story" behind your bets, it is probably a waste of chips.

I would have much prefered a CHECK on the flop, as written above.

When I do a hand analysis, I try very hard to not let the results influence me. As such, I open a note pad, and begin my write up street by street usually. I tend to make notes about each street, and go back and finalize the form later. Sometimes in the back and forth between writing thoughts and advancing the hand, I will miss an action like I did here.

I apologize for any problems this may have caused.
 

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