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Live. $60+10 (bounty tourney) 6-handed, 28c in the SB

 
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Live. $60+10 (bounty tourney) 6-handed, 28c in the SB - Mon Nov 14, 2011, 04:27 PM
(#1)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
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We're 6-handed (started out with 11, top 2 spots pay officially) and it folds to me in the SB with . I have about 3200 chips at 200/400. BB has about 5500. I have been very tight lately having been dealt utter garbage and not being able to get into a pot since I raise/folded KQ to a 3-bet and a shove on 20 BBs (3-better had KJo, shover had A6o)). BB is not particularly loose.

So, should I jam or fold? Despite being short-stacked, should the fact that the rest of the table is really terrible push me to a fold? I'm pretty sure that all things being equal I'm supposed to just jam any two here. Plus, I'm suited
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 04:42 PM
(#2)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
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And not a single read on BB? Anywho, easy shove, he can't put most of his stack with crap here, and we are not horribad vs his calling range anyway
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 05:09 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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how was your stack compared to the other 5 players, not the blinds?
In alot of the daily tourneys there, at least the numerous ones I've played, the blinds go up quick, so even the chip leader may only have a small/medium stack compared to the blinds. Due to that, in those tourneys, I normally make my shove point 5BB instead of 10BB.

Read on the BB would be mandatory for me to make my decision on it. If you think the BB will fold anything but a premium hand, then I'm shoving to get the blinds. If the BB will instantly call you, especially if the rest of the players are not that great, I'd probably fold and look to shove with better cards in the next orbit.

The 'book' play is probably to shove regardless, but if the table's weak and i've got a good read on them and can outplay them, then I'd consider folding. Anything other than shove/fold would not be an option in my eyes.
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 05:10 PM
(#4)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
how was your stack compared to the other 5 players, not the blinds?
In alot of the daily tourneys there, at least the numerous ones I've played, the blinds go up quick, so even the chip leader may only have a small/medium stack compared to the blinds. Due to that, in those tourneys, I normally make my shove point 5BB instead of 10BB.

Read on the BB would be mandatory for me to make my decision on it. If you think the BB will fold anything but a premium hand, then I'm shoving to get the blinds. If the BB will instantly call you, especially if the rest of the players are not that great, I'd probably fold and look to shove with better cards in the next orbit.

The 'book' play is probably to shove regardless, but if the table's weak and i've got a good read on them and can outplay them, then I'd consider folding. Anything other than shove/fold would not be an option in my eyes.
Outplay them how exactly without a stack? Good word?
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 05:20 PM
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with as fast as the blinds go up.. if you sense weakness, then push... if not, then wait until you know you're ahead. In those tourneys, at least the ones i've played over the last 10+ yrs, everyone gets shortstacked with relation to the blinds at about that level, so to win one, you either need cards, or to be able to sense strength or weakness in an opponent.
You don't have to have a huge stack compared to the opp to be able to outplay them, but you will have to be able to read them.
 
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Mon Nov 14, 2011, 05:23 PM
(#6)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
with as fast as the blinds go up.. if you sense weakness, then push... if not, then wait until you know you're ahead. In those tourneys, at least the ones i've played over the last 10+ yrs, everyone gets shortstacked with relation to the blinds at about that level, so to win one, you either need cards, or to be able to sense strength or weakness in an opponent.
You don't have to have a huge stack compared to the opp to be able to outplay them, but you will have to be able to read them.
What... ? Almost none of this makes any sense. In this stage of tourney everyone is either pushing or folding, where is your hardcore reading skill in that? Mind reading based on how they look at picked cards?
 
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Tue Nov 15, 2011, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puciek View Post
And not a single read on BB? Anywho, easy shove, he can't put most of his stack with crap here, and we are not horribad vs his calling range anyway
Yeah, that's what I figured. Anyhow, I did shove, and the BB woke up with QQ. People were utterly shocked when I flipped over , haha. One thing is since it was live I might have been able to pick up on him liking his hand, and then a fold would be possible, but I didn't notice him look. I got a pretty nice flop too. , but lost the postflop flip.

My read was that he was not loose, standard tight aggressive player. Only seen him table strong hands. Running pretty good though. Earlier we had discussed this KK/AA cooler and he commented that people will get it in with all sorts of crap. Also, we had both commented on a maniac German player calling a sizable 3-bet jam on a high card flop with 33, and holding up against a big ace. Early on, despite him being directly on my left I decided he was not the person at the table for me to try to exploit, since he was not one of the guys limping in every hand.
 
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Tue Nov 15, 2011, 02:04 AM
(#8)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Yeah, that's what I figured. Anyhow, I did shove, and the BB woke up with QQ. People were utterly shocked when I flipped over , haha. One thing is since it was live I might have been able to pick up on him liking his hand, and then a fold would be possible, but I didn't notice him look. I got a pretty nice flop too. , but lost the postflop flip.
This is a fallacy. Picking tells on players that are reliable is VERY hard and time consuming task. You must not only pick a mannerism but also figure out why he is doing it, then test "are you right" and figure out what is the % of him faking it to set you up.
In short: don't relay on tells unless you know exactly what you are doing.

Here you were just unlucky since he picked QQ. Move on to the cashgame
 

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