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Catch 22 (unintentional) TOS Infringement

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Catch 22 (unintentional) TOS Infringement - Thu Nov 17, 2011, 11:38 PM
(#1)
boobylops's Avatar
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I have been trying to teach my eldest son to play poker (even though I am only a newbie myself).

What I wanted to do was seat us both at a table and try and give him advice whilst we were playing.

This appears to be impossible for the following reasons;

1. We will both be using the same IP adress

2. Potential collusion/soft play

3. There is no point sitting at a HU table together, we could easily do it with a pack of cards

If I get him to join a home game with me, even if all other players were aware of the situation, it would still be a TOS infringement.

If only one of us plays and the other is involved in discussion/advice on play this is also an infringement.

Has anybody got any suggestions ?
 
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Thu Nov 17, 2011, 11:49 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
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I'd avoid the same game. Better to have the 2 of you in a room, with one playing and talking between you about the hands. That way you both see the cards and can discuss it, but there is absolutely no vioation of any of the TOS with only 1 playing.

If you're both in the same tournies.. that could cause a problem and it's better to be proactive to avoid anything that could even be considered a violation.

Last edited by JWK24; Thu Nov 17, 2011 at 11:54 PM..
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 12:49 AM
(#3)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boobylops View Post
I have been trying to teach my eldest son to play poker (even though I am only a newbie myself).

What I wanted to do was seat us both at a table and try and give him advice whilst we were playing.

This appears to be impossible for the following reasons;

1. We will both be using the same IP adress

2. Potential collusion/soft play

3. There is no point sitting at a HU table together, we could easily do it with a pack of cards

If I get him to join a home game with me, even if all other players were aware of the situation, it would still be a TOS infringement.

If only one of us plays and the other is involved in discussion/advice on play this is also an infringement.

Has anybody got any suggestions ?

If he is of age, get him his own account.

Watch him play.

talk about the hands he played AFTER each finishes.

That is a shadow session, not a ToS violation.

If he is not of age, teach him to play at home with a deck of cards until he is.
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 04:16 AM
(#4)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
If he is of age, get him his own account.

Watch him play.

talk about the hands he played AFTER each finishes.

That is a shadow session, not a ToS violation.

If he is not of age, teach him to play at home with a deck of cards until he is.
Agree if he is not old enough throw him in zynga poker on Facebook that way he would see a lot more hands than he would with a deck off cards. Facebook is were a lot off people are starting off learning these days! It is also full off beginers and it tells you what hand you have got. My gf and eldest 9 year old son both play and learnt the basics off the game there.
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 08:12 AM
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either have him make an account for himself, both of you will need to send in ID etc or as Bis said play on zynga... if not stars will snap ban you in a second
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 08:24 AM
(#6)
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We have made him an account already as he is over 21 but am still worried that we may violate some obscure TOS so I think we will just have to do as JD says and shadow session each other.
Does seem a shame that we can't play in any of the big freerolls together (though I understand why) as Stars are supposed to have software preventing 2 people with the same IP adress from being on the same table.
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 08:40 AM
(#7)
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all you need to do is let stars know, and send in id's then all will be good.. but you need to send in the paperwork or the chances of you getting banned are about 100%
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 08:41 AM
(#8)
pokerstar671's Avatar
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Posts: 1,206
you can do it in a home game I think
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 08:45 AM
(#9)
pokerstar671's Avatar
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Posts: 1,206
also if i read correctly you can play in the same mtt tournament as long as your not colluding
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 08:50 AM
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lol I think it is only after you have been verified, and it has to be at least a 45 man tourney
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 09:33 AM
(#11)
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Posts: 1,206
no i dont think it can be any sng i think it has to be a regular mtt not sng
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 09:39 AM
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roomik17's Avatar
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either way we should get an answer in this forum
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 09:48 AM
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Can I play at the same table as my friend?
Yes. PokerStars is happy for friends, relatives, and acquaintances to play at the same table as each other. However, when you do so, you are expected to play just as competitively against your friend as you would against any other player, and you must not share any information about the cards that you hold with them or make any playing agreements in secret (doing so is collusion, which is strictly prohibited).

If you have an agreement to share a bankroll, stake, or split profits with your friend, then in the interest of game integrity you must not play at the same cash game table or in the same Sit & Go tournament.

Players who live in the same household, whatever their relationship, must not play at the same cash game table or in the same Sit & Go tournament. In some cases, this restriction will be imposed automatically by the game software.
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 09:48 AM
(#14)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomik17 View Post
either way we should get an answer in this forum

My advice Boobylops, would be not to rely solely on any advice you get in this forum in this instance.

(Yes I realise that is a bit paradoxical).

The forum at PSO is a great place for general advice, information and communication, both from the staff and the peer players, as the majority do their best to help each other. However, in a case like this where you risk losing your PS account if you inadvertently infringe a TOS, I would make sure you get the advice from the horses mouth, PokerStars, via their support team. Check out all their online info first and if anything isn't absolutely clear ask them specific questions.

In the meantime - here at PSO you and your protege should both be able to access and partake in all the learning resources, including I would imagine, both participating in live training sessions.

Good luck - and remember never to let the student get better than the teacher.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 09:52 AM
(#15)
roomik17's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
My advice Boobylops, would be not to rely solely on any advice you get in this forum in this instance.
I meant a definitive answer from Hostmichael either way he needs to contact support
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 12:03 PM
(#16)
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Thanks for all the comments, I have contacted support and will post their reply when it is received.
 
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Fri Nov 18, 2011, 03:15 PM
(#17)
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This is the answer I received

Thank you for contacting PokerStars.

PokerStars is happy for friends, relatives, and acquaintances to play at the same tables as each other. However, when you do so, you are expected to play just as competitively against your friends as you would against any other player, and you must not share any information about the cards that you hold with them or make any playing agreements in secret (doing so is collusion, which is strictly prohibited).

The relevant section of our terms of service is section 5.4 and can be found on our website at:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/tos/

"5.4. COLLUSION. Collusion between Users by sharing hole cards or by any other methods is strictly forbidden. PokerStars reserves the right, in addition to other measures, to restrict seating and/or to prohibit Users from playing at a particular poker table or in a tournament, including restricting two or more Users from playing together at the same table or in the same tournament. In addition, PokerStars reserves the right to consider any collusion between players (including Users) as a material breach of this Agreement and accordingly PokerStars shall have the right to terminate a User's account if a User engages or attempts to engage in any such activity, regardless of the outcome of such attempt."

Please also keep in mind our card room rules and our tournament rules when playing. These can be found at:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/policies/

and

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/rules/

If you have an agreement to share a bankroll, stake, or split profits with your friend, then in the interest of game integrity you must not play at the same cash game table or in the same Sit & Go tournament.

Players who live in the same household, whatever their relationship, must not play at the same cash game table or in the same Sit & Go tournament with 45 players or less. In some cases, this restriction will be imposed automatically by the game software. This restriction does not apply to scheduled Multi-Table Tournaments (MTTs) or 2-player heads-up matches. In MTTs, due to the large numbers of players, friends or relatives are unlikely to be seated next to each other. In heads-up matches, since there are only two players, the only person with whom you can share your cards with, is your opponent... not a good idea.

However, PokerStars has now launched a special feature called Home Games : Home Games will allow Club Members to sit at the same table, even if they are playing from the same IP or shared location, in any type of game. One of the main features is to give all players the possibility to join a game from the same location.

More details about Home Games can be found at:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/home-games/
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/home-games/faq/

Please let us know if you have any other questions, and thank you for choosing PokerStars.

Regards,

Guillermo M
PokerStars Support Team
 
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Sat Nov 19, 2011, 02:07 AM
(#18)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
so what happens if you and your brother sister mother father wife final table the same mtt?
 
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Sat Nov 19, 2011, 02:35 AM
(#19)
mcrissinger's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
so what happens if you and your brother sister mother father wife final table the same mtt?
Then they'll check to make sure you weren't soft-playing each other and congratulate all of you for being bad-ass and making the FT.
 
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Sat Nov 19, 2011, 10:14 AM
(#20)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
yea but it says they block players from playing at the same tableif they use the same connection. would you have to go use another connection somewhere while they continue to play at the house?
 

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