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I think my cards needed to be face up

 
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I think my cards needed to be face up - Mon Nov 21, 2011, 09:42 AM
(#1)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
This was my fifth hand at a new table
No specific reads on any player
Player who called my all in had been in 5 previous hands and the other player once showing pocket 9's which he lost to an ace rag player
My all in on the turn gave my hand away
The reason for the all in was I wasn't playing for small bets , I wanted to be paid off
Was I right to shove? Did I give my hand away with it ?


Btw If you read this J D , ty for advice on team speak speak about aggression



 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 09:47 AM
(#2)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
knowing opp is a spazz, its a good shove... now if it was a good player there is almost no way they call. If they have any history with you though spike they may think you have 38 off lol good play against a known paint chip eater,against a thinking player a smaller bet might induce a call
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:08 AM
(#3)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
I'm thinkin' a bet of half that might have got em both to tag along, making the pot the size you raked w/ another betting round left to make it even bigger. Thank your lucky stars you had a spewtard as a villain, cause no normal opp would call that lead w/o 2 pr. or better me thinks. With the size of the pot on the flop there was never an issue of whether you could get it in by the river. Just my .02

Last edited by mtnestegg; Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 AM..
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:08 AM
(#4)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Shove it pref.
As played, shove it OTF.
As played, shove it OTT.

Doing anything else but shoving it pref and for sure OTF is a horrible mistake and doesn't even deserve an explanation.
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:25 AM
(#5)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
SPIKE!

You are still CALLLLLLLING!!!!

That is not aggressive poker...

You have 27.5BB to start the hand. You have an EP raiser, who has made it 4BB to go.

You are putting yourself into a spot where you might fold off almost 13% of your chips.

If you have no info on the villain, so you have no clue whether he is loose or tight, and you do not know how AJs will play, FOLD IT if you cannot pull the trigger on a raise...do not call and leave yourself card dependant.

2/3rds of the time you'll air ball this flop, and you will end up folding away a good chunk of your chips.

AJs is a decent enough hand to raise usually though, but to raise it up you are looking at making it probably 9 or 10BB to go at least as a standard 3bet pre. You cannot do that then fold, so you might as well move in if you are going to raise at all.

NOW...

Let's say you do not mind taking the flop for 13% and folding that away. The flop comes bingo for you, as you have 2 overs and a flush draw. You cannot check/call again, and WAIT for the card you want. That card is falling only aobut 18% of the time for you on the turn, and if it doesn;t hit then, the villain is probably betting again...and you probably fold.

Aggression, aggression, aggression Spike.

In this hand you didn;t use it until you actually made the nut hand. If the spade doesn;t fall, you likely get bet off this way more often than not, and those calls get to be uber expensive.

So fire next time Spike, or fold and wait for a hand you can confidently fire on.


Last edited by JDean; Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 10:28 AM..
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:32 AM
(#6)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puciek View Post
Shove it pref.
As played, shove it OTF.
As played, shove it OTT.

Doing anything else but shoving it pref and for sure OTF is a horrible mistake and doesn't even deserve an explanation.
Cheers Room n Egg
As for Puciek
Thank you for your kind response
Seeing as this is the shove/donk fest league game where you have no score posted or the premier league either I will treat you words with the contempt they deserve
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:37 AM
(#7)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike8998 View Post
Cheers Room n Egg
As for Puciek
Thank you for your kind response
Seeing as this is the shove/donk fest league game where you have no score posted or the premier league either I will treat you words with the contempt they deserve
I am pondering between ignoring it (as always) or trying to beat some sense into you. I am going to pass, leaving this just for future reference. In the end, your play is perfect
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:51 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Shoving pre is ok but marginally so imo, it is much better than calling however. Shoving on the flop is much better than check-calling, check-call is about the worst way to play this imo. JDean is right spike, you need to work on your aggression. There was another thread recently by you that was titled "Aggressive play" or something like that, and the very first play you made was limping in preflop. Don't get me wrong, there are times that calling is the optimal play. But generally you should be taking more aggressive lines, and your game is still much more passive in general.

Stick with JDean, he'll get the calling bug knocked out of you eventually.
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:53 AM
(#9)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
I agree that you should have been more aggressive ealier in the hand but "in the end" you asked what we thought of the shove, so that's what I commented on.
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 11:30 AM
(#10)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
I agree that you should have been more aggressive ealier in the hand but "in the end" you asked what we thought of the shove, so that's what I commented on.
I wasn't having a go at you
Like I said , this is the donkfest shove league where patience is the key
Any normal mtt , lol , I shove on the flop
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 11:48 AM
(#11)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puciek View Post

Doing anything else but shoving it pref and for sure OTF is a horrible mistake and doesn't even deserve an explanation.
and I have to disagree here, not about it being a mistake not shoving the flop, but that it doesn't deserve an explanation. anyone posting here in the hand analysis forum "deserves" that. Not tryin to be an azz here, just forthright.
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 12:33 PM
(#12)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
and I have to disagree here, not about it being a mistake not shoving the flop, but that it doesn't deserve an explanation. anyone posting here in the hand analysis forum "deserves" that. Not tryin to be an azz here, just forthright.
Why repeat same things over and over, and this is ABC decision. You got loose oppoenents, you are in spot to squeeze, you beat their current range (and even against their top range you do fine). No reason not to push, by just this ABC explained in many articles.
But as you see his reason not so shove here is because it's "donkfest", so apparently in donkfests you don't get value from pushing pref.

@Langoloier do you really advice folding here over pushing? Because we got no other plays here, it's either shove or fold. Especially since this is a donkfest where people will be loose to follow their 400, i am even more happy to just ship it and get my extra value pref meal.
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 01:31 PM
(#13)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puciek View Post

@Langoloier do you really advice folding here over pushing? Because we got no other plays here, it's either shove or fold. Especially since this is a donkfest where people will be loose to follow their 400, i am even more happy to just ship it and get my extra value pref meal.
I was the one who answered, and no, I do not really advise that.

But it IS a premier league, so if you have no clue of the range of the opponent, a fold is possible.

...would I want to do it?

No.

On the flop, even in the premier league, this has to be go time.

Just as YOU are highly risk averse, so should your opponents be. That means you either fold him out if he has a marginal made hand ahead of you (like TT/JJ), or you get max value with pretty decent equity.
 

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