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AK in Cowboy's Corral Game - other options?

 
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AK in Cowboy's Corral Game - other options? - Mon Nov 21, 2011, 01:01 PM
(#1)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I am posting this as there was some chat discussion after the hand questioning why I flatted the min raise preflop and what my line would have been if other players behind had reraised preflop, or if not, but I had then missed my hand on the flop. The hand has a fairly simple outcome as I am crushed by AA, but I am interested to see if anybody thinks I should have taken a different line.

The background is that the short stack villain who min raises in early position is a strong player, and the table in general is fairly tight. My own image is usually pretty tight too. I have to put the villain on a strong hand to be min raising ep, but as I am holding AK I am happy to flat the min raise hoping to see a flop reasonably cheap. I would be prepared to fold if I miss on the flop. However, if there was a reraise behind me preflop the villain would have shoved. In that situation I would have reshoved my bigger stack to try to isolate. Basically with AK I am rarely put an opponent on AA or KK and would be prepared to play my AK for their stack, and would be hoping to fold out other strong hands who might well put me on AA/KK myself for a shove of that size.

When I hit the K on the flop I am not going away so again want to get one on one with the original aggressor. This is what happens but they obviously had a hand that trounced me in this instance.

I realise I am giving odds to other players to enter the hand preflop, but should I really be concerned about that if I am playing a hand with this line, the same as I might play a medium pocket pair looking to hit a set.

Any thoughts on what was good or bad about my play are welcome.

Here's the full hand.



Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 02:28 PM
(#2)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I think the play was ok.

If you had raised Preflop and forced out the two other players. The villian may have shoved, but being tricky may have flatted there.

You stated at the table you were playing Fit or Fold. Why was this?

given you were playing fit or fold you hit Top Top, so the play was good.

Grade b
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 02:36 PM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
No issues whatsoever with how you played this.

Pre flop the money is a little too deep in the effective stack to really want to place yourself in what might be a race situation for 40%+ of your stack.

If you consider that a 3bet by you would normally be on the order of 360 to go, and that CALLING that would tend to stick the effective stack pretty hard to this flop, you may well see a pre flop jam you might not be comfortable with; if the UTG raiser is 10BB, then definately put him in, or FOLD because he made a "funny" raise...but he didn;t have that amount.

Also, making the 3bet here is going to make the pot AT LEAST 855 if the UTG calls, and with a little over 900 left behind if he flats a 3bet pre, you are going to be in a pretty sticky spot yourself the 2/3rds of the time you miss. I think as written, your plan is a solid one, and well reasoned.

I also like your heart in going with the hand you were most likely to see from AK; top/top. You are dead right, combinatronically, the villain SHOULD have AA or KK less often because you hold blockers to those hands, so you are sort of defeating the purpose of entering on a hand like AK at all if you fold. It is only after the fact that the old "standard" play of a min raise UTG meaning AA becomes readily appearent, but if you are mucking top/top in fear of that, do not bother playing AK at all, ya know?

This could have just as easily been QQ, and you could be scooping a fat pot. Well played, just bad result.

At least you still have 60% of your stack to move forward on...
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 06:00 PM
(#4)
boobylops's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 232
BronzeStar
No problems with the way you played it.

From the discussion at the table I think the villain was fishing for any information he could get out of you, the Monk doesn't miss a trick.
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 06:21 PM
(#5)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by boobylops View Post
No problems with the way you played it.

From the discussion at the table I think the villain was fishing for any information he could get out of you, the Monk doesn't miss a trick.
As he can't reply in person here, I don't want to say too much (though I quite enjoy referring to him as a 'VILLAIN' in an arena he has no comeback in...he can always harangue me next week)

I definitely agree with your read - his chat had ulterior motives, but in that specific environment where we are playing each other so regularly I don't think he is learning anything much he doesn't know already. Possibly winding me up or distracting me a bit too. Definitely well played by Monkeyskunk, but his post hand comments just got me thinking what I could have done differently. My issue really was with the stack sizes at that point in that slow tournament structure we have in the Corral games, which can be hard to adjust to initially when you come into it from other faster games. You feel like you are getting short stacked when in fact at this point we all still had decent stack to blind ratios, so no need to get too involved with unmade hands.

See you in the Corral soon I hope boobylops - nice 2nd place in only your second game with the sickos

Good luck

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 06:21 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Ed, I'd have played it the exact same way. Like the shove on the flop to try and isolate (unfortumately, you isolated the one monster that you were behind).
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 06:29 PM
(#7)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
I thought monkeyskunk said all home games were filled with colluders and cheats?
 
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Mon Nov 21, 2011, 06:34 PM
(#8)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomik17 View Post
I thought monkeyskunk said all home games were filled with colluders and cheats?
Are you stirring again roomik?

I never heard that,

(but If he didn't say it he probably meant to).



Ed
 

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