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pokerschool open skill league...why bother?

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pokerschool open skill league...why bother? - Wed Nov 23, 2011, 09:48 PM
(#1)
bikerzaine's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 42
hello, this is my first post( and may well be my last). I have played in a few "pokerschool open skill league" mtts now and am thinking "whats the point" as i have been donked out every time. before getting donked i see a lot of donk play i.e preflop all ins with trash,calling a pfr with trash,fishing, etc,etc. now as i understand it if you get knocked out before the bubble you lose points. this hardly seems fair as even the best players in the world lose to donks and fish. it does'nt make sense that a pokerschool league has a points system that seems to reward donk/bingo play and punish good players who happen to get "fished" or "donked" out before the bubble.
don't get me wrong i think the articles etc in the school are very helpfull and have helped me improve my game, but the open skill league just seems like a waste of time because the points i have gained and would get for finishing any where near the top will be wiped out by the times i don't make the bubble. seems to me that the current points system will not give an accurate result as to who has improved their game, which i thought was the whole point of the league.
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 09:56 PM
(#2)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
the game is designed to hammer into your head dont go out early
when blinds are small its dumb to lose all your stack thats the key lesson it strives to make
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:09 PM
(#3)
bikerzaine's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzaine View Post
hello, this is my first post( and may well be my last). I have played in a few "pokerschool open skill league" mtts now and am thinking "whats the point" as i have been donked out every time. before getting donked i see a lot of donk play i.e preflop all ins with trash,calling a pfr with trash,fishing, etc,etc. now as i understand it if you get knocked out before the bubble you lose points. this hardly seems fair as even the best players in the world lose to donks and fish. it does'nt make sense that a pokerschool league has a points system that seems to reward donk/bingo play and punish good players who happen to get "fished" or "donked" out before the bubble.
don't get me wrong i think the articles etc in the school are very helpfull and have helped me improve my game, but the open skill league just seems like a waste of time because the points i have gained and would get for finishing any where near the top will be wiped out by the times i don't make the bubble. seems to me that the current points system will not give an accurate result as to who has improved their game, which i thought was the whole point of the league.
yes i understand that but does that mean am i meant to fold my flopped set of queens because some moron has called my fpr with trash and might hit the turn and river? judging by the game play i've seen in these mtts the lesson has failed
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:11 PM
(#4)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Why bother?

Free to enter and potentially big prizes. Promotion to the Premier League and bigger prizes. For many new players and those with limited bankrolls this is a good place to play and start a roll.

It requires stamina, patience and hand selection, but if you want to do well in the league standings, you have to play the system and wait for the other players to get donked out and bad beat before you, which means laying down good hands and conserving chips while the fast attrition rate moves you up the tournament placings. Then if you can play a short stack well in the latter stages you have an edge. Don't expect to win the individual tournaments but get to the top 10-20% regularly you will be getting positive points all the way.

No league points system is perfect, you basically have to adjust to what is put in front of you and challenge yourself to beat the game. Many have done so very profitably. If you keep going all in with QQ/KK/AA early in the tournament (and it is difficult to avoid going all in if you enter any hands early) you will often get beat in multiway pots by trash hands sucking out. This is not the line to take in this type of points system tournament. It is more like a satellite where your first goal is survival to the bubble.

It's not for everyone so if you don't like it don't play. If you do want to play you really have to accept that to do well and win prizes you have to adjust radically.

Good luck

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:28 PM
(#5)
bikerzaine's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 42
thanks Ed that's some good advice. i would just like to say though that the only time i go all in preflop is if i am short stacked. you will NEVER see me shove with QQ/KK or even AA preflop if i have more than 15 BBs. never thought i would say this but it looks like i would be better off sitting out for the first hour?
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:30 PM
(#6)
Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
The Open Skill League is quite a challenge with the all-in donks trying to chip-up early. It is very difficult to watch good hands go down the river when some donk catches his/her 58o straight to beat your set of Queens. BUT, this is a league, and the idea is to finish in the money at the end of the MONTH.

Have you checked the scoring system? Study it carefully and you will see what is important about the Skill League, and quite different from regular MTT's.
Patience is critical. You may have AA pre-flop on your first hand, but if you are aiming for end-of-the-month results, you may consider folding this hand if there are already 3 all-in donks. Hanging around for positive points is a key concept for playing in this league. Watch the players near the top of the leaderboard and you will see that they play very tight and use the clock. Let the donks knock each other out of the tourney - especially in the first 20-30 minutes.

Check the MTT course, where there are some examples of how to play the League tourneys different than regular MTT's. It's not the same game, so you will have to use different strategies to outwit the donks.

Where you finish at the end of the month is way more important than winning the first hand of today's tourney.

Hope this is helpful. See you at the tables.

Herk
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:36 PM
(#7)
Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
I just saw Ed's post and agree almost entirely with his well-written response. Play the system, let the donks knock each other out, play your short stack well and you will score positive points most tourneys. With enough tourneys under your belt, you'll be in the money at the end of the month - when it really counts.

You have to beat out almost 10000 players in a tourney to win about $2.50. Finish consistently in the positive points and you can cash for $2.50 at the end of the month by being in the top 2000 players in the league.

Herk
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:50 PM
(#8)
bikerzaine's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 42
thanks Herk,
Yes it is helpful. I have done the MTT course but another look over it can only help.
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 10:50 PM
(#9)
boobylops's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 232
BronzeStar
As usual Ed gets to the crux of playing this league .... Patience.

Preserve your chips for when the donks are gone, it's a long slog in this League, BUT the rewards are good if you make it to the top.

The only thing not mentioned is make sure you get your VPPs every month so that your prize is greatly increased and you are eligible for promotion to the Premier League where you can actually put into practice what you have learnt earlier.

Good luck in the tournies.
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 11:09 PM
(#10)
Deleted user
So what is the purpose of the premier league if patience if the game for the open league?

Just curious what people think.

I think patience is a great lesson and once you learn it you should be ready for premier league.
But whats the lesson there?
 
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Wed Nov 23, 2011, 11:23 PM
(#11)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzaine View Post
hello, this is my first post( and may well be my last). I have played in a few "pokerschool open skill league" mtts now and am thinking "whats the point" as i have been donked out every time. before getting donked i see a lot of donk play i.e preflop all ins with trash,calling a pfr with trash,fishing, etc,etc. now as i understand it if you get knocked out before the bubble you lose points. this hardly seems fair as even the best players in the world lose to donks and fish. it does'nt make sense that a pokerschool league has a points system that seems to reward donk/bingo play and punish good players who happen to get "fished" or "donked" out before the bubble.
don't get me wrong i think the articles etc in the school are very helpfull and have helped me improve my game, but the open skill league just seems like a waste of time because the points i have gained and would get for finishing any where near the top will be wiped out by the times i don't make the bubble. seems to me that the current points system will not give an accurate result as to who has improved their game, which i thought was the whole point of the league.
You can succeed in the Open League. Simple strategy is "Burn and fold".

As in use ALL of your clock and time bank then fold. Each hand.

Wait for the right hand in the right place. Then hope to capitalize. That is it in a nutshell.

I'm living there now, so you could use me as an example of fairly few games played, but still on the board. 50 or so more points are coming, which should bump me up inside the top 300.

Enjoy,

Dale
 
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Thu Nov 24, 2011, 07:17 AM
(#12)
Pentire's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
Lessons from the premier league:

1. Teaches you to disregard the bubble and shoot for the FT, then top 3.

2. You are playing for free, yet certainly have something to lose. A cheap simulation of mid-high stakes poker.

3. Note taking. At the higher stakes, most players have notes on each other. They come up against each other all the time. This is also true in the PL, good note taking can pay nicely later.

Plenty more, I am sure.
 
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Thu Nov 24, 2011, 08:47 AM
(#13)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,022
(Community Coordinator)
*** Moved royalraise85 ***

Moved from General Section into Pokerschool Skill League Section.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 01:46 PM
(#14)
Apatinac's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
It's about time for PSO to make some changes in Open league,like in old PSO league.
Only players who are registered with PSO and pass some of the quizzes can play,I'm sick of all that donks who doesn't even know why they play open league,they didn't even heard for leaderboard!
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 02:15 PM
(#15)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Welcome to PSO and the forum Zaine!
Great to see people giving these responses, and you taking them in for your benefit. There are many great things about the PSO beside just the Leagues. Be sure to check out everything offered here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apatinac View Post
It's about time for PSO to make some changes in Open league,like in old PSO league.
Only players who are registered with PSO and pass some of the quizzes can play,I'm sick of all that donks who doesn't even know why they play open league,they didn't even heard for leaderboard!
The best route for these suggestions is to go to the discussion threads on the leagues in the Skill Leagues forum. Here's the one for the Open League.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 08:30 PM
(#16)
coopster_001's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 13
BronzeStar
Most of the advice given here is spot on. Patience, patience and more patience. Change gears once you're comfortable that you aren't going to have a big negative score.

Learn how to fold big hands when the negative far outweighs the positive. There's no point getting donked with AA first or second hand of a tourney, learn where you need to finish to get into + points rather than - points. If you finish 9900, you'll be looking at a massive loss of points, especially inside the top 500.

For example, last month I went into the last tournament in 2nd place. 2nd hand I had AA and after a think (down to the red) I folded it. As it turns out I would have lost the hand to a player who pushed all-in with 8/9 and flopped a set of 9's. I probably would have dropped 6 or 7 places had I called which was signifcant prizemoney. I stuck to the plan, got to + points, got lucky once or twice, ended up running 270th and won the League by a couple of points.
 
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Tue Nov 29, 2011, 12:03 AM
(#17)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
+lots and lots. You have to keep your eye on the end of the month result, not one hand. A very similiar concept applies to a lot o MTTs. It's an exercise in discipline that will serve you well in your poker career.

 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 09:00 AM
(#18)
CorkiePoker's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerzaine View Post
thanks Ed that's some good advice. i would just like to say though that the only time i go all in preflop is if i am short stacked. you will NEVER see me shove with QQ/KK or even AA preflop if i have more than 15 BBs. never thought i would say this but it looks like i would be better off sitting out for the first hour?
Sitting out isn't the optimal strategy; using up the clock and folding is. Don't count down your time clock, but do delay. Make your folds at the last available moment. The "shoving crowd" will thin themselves out. Once you get to the money, and plus points, then you must play serious short stack poker. However, folding is still preferable to playing a bad hand. I preferred to use my time clock once I got to the money to put me a bit deeper in. It also helps if when there are 800 players left and your stack is down to $20 you can rally and ride it down the the 100 range. The whole point of playing the Open League is to get to the premier league where real poker is (sometimes) played.

It's more of a boot camp than a tournament; your job is to crawl forward under the wire keeping your head and behind down while live ammunition is flying 2 inches above. You crawl forward until you reach your objective (+points) and then you try to score as well as possible. If you do it well enough, they let you move on, otherwise you have to go back and do it over again.
 
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Bad beats in League play - Thu Dec 01, 2011, 10:49 AM
(#19)
hunter tahu's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 2
I feel your frustration! Remember, this is "online" poker. Although you will want to play the odds you have learned, as you have obviously seen, they don't really apply here. AA seems o lose at least 50% in heads up, While 10 6 0r 10 8 seem to do much better. I know the donks you speak of. It is easy to say they 'just got lucky', but when a person re-raises or calls all-in with an obviosly inferior hand, and seems to be steadily at the top of the rankings, there is something else to it. The percentage of river wins and bad beats seem to be part of the programming to add 'excitement'. there are sites you can visit that will explain the dealing, and suggest impiracle (sp?) data as opposed to the odds that work out more in real life play. Remember, this is a game, it is meant to excite you, not to reflect real life odds.
 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 11:05 AM
(#20)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter tahu View Post
I feel your frustration! Remember, this is "online" poker. Although you will want to play the odds you have learned, as you have obviously seen, they don't really apply here. AA seems o lose at least 50% in heads up, While 10 6 0r 10 8 seem to do much better. I know the donks you speak of. It is easy to say they 'just got lucky', but when a person re-raises or calls all-in with an obviosly inferior hand, and seems to be steadily at the top of the rankings, there is something else to it. The percentage of river wins and bad beats seem to be part of the programming to add 'excitement'. there are sites you can visit that will explain the dealing, and suggest impiracle (sp?) data as opposed to the odds that work out more in real life play. Remember, this is a game, it is meant to excite you, not to reflect real life odds.
Hi tahu and welcome to the forum.
There is no programming designed to do anything but be random. Variance is very visible in online poker because of the amount of hands we see compared to live.
We have members here in PSO who track hands via a tracker program and after long studies, they find their preflop holdings to do exactly as expected over a long term. Until anyone can provide proof that is contrary, "rigged" comments are just theories.
I encourage players to put this mindset out of their heads as it only serves to hinder your ability to play your best.
If you wish to look at the hands holding up as I described, do an advanced search of Cairn Destop here in the forum. You will see his findings and I think you'll be encouraged.

Please enjoy everything and if you need any tips to getting started, I've put some together here.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
 

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