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KK - Mon Nov 28, 2011, 09:21 AM
(#1)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
This really pissed me off for a few reasons, yeah I know I should not let it get to me but when this type of thing is happening consistently, it makes me wonder what i'm doing wrong and whether i'm just wasting my time on this game



Edited to add:

The 2 hands previous to this the same player won. He bet/raised with Q3o on the flop, and hit his flush on the turn. He raised again on the river. The next hand, he had Q8, checked the 6K5 rainbow fliop, then bet on the K turn, he won the hand with a pair of K's, Queen kicker. So as he did not bet or raise on the above hand at all, I put him down as having nothing and was just calling to the river hoping to hit. I guess I got played.

Last edited by electrux_hcb; Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 09:37 AM.. Reason: expanded explanation
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 09:35 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,026
(Community Coordinator)
Your preflop raise size was fine.

The flop came out and it was not a good one for your premium holding. There are now 5 cards out there that have you beat, 2 nines and 3 Aces.

The biggest dis-advantage here is that your out of position and that allows the villian, who has flopped a monster to check down the flop, smooth call your turn bet and call your shove on the river.

Personally, I'd like to see you fire out a sizeable bet on the flop, perhaps 80% of the Pot. The reason being is that on the context of the board you are usually only going to get called with a hand containing an Ace or an 9. Then you know you are beat and can release your hand without losing your entire stack.

That's just my opinion but my skill level is very basic. I'm sure some of the more experienced players here will be able to give you a better answer.

Raiser
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 09:50 AM
(#3)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalraise85 View Post
Your preflop raise size was fine.

The flop came out and it was not a good one for your premium holding. There are now 5 cards out there that have you beat, 2 nines and 3 Aces.

The biggest dis-advantage here is that your out of position and that allows the villian, who has flopped a monster to check down the flop, smooth call your turn bet and call your shove on the river.

Personally, I'd like to see you fire out a sizeable bet on the flop, perhaps 80% of the Pot. The reason being is that on the context of the board you are usually only going to get called with a hand containing an Ace or an 9. Then you know you are beat and can release your hand without losing your entire stack.

That's just my opinion but my skill level is very basic. I'm sure some of the more experienced players here will be able to give you a better answer.

Raiser
I agree with raiser. Also it looks so early by looking at the stacks. Most loose players call any A early games I find.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 10:08 AM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Pre flop your actions are fine.

On the flop, your check is fine.

On the river, for the size of the pot, your stand is probably fine...you will probably get called by less often enough to be ok. the fact you were beat there is a bit of a cooler.

That just leaves the turn...

When the board double pairs, what do you think you are ahead of that can call you?

A lot of micro players habitually slow play flopped trips, and an A on the flop is not a very good hand when it COULD be facing trips. That means either a 9 or an A is going to have a good chance to still be in the hand here, and any lesser hand is quite likely to FOLD to a bet here.

By betting, you are essentially turning a hand with showdown value into a BLUFF hand here.

The problem with betting a hand that only has marginal value is that you can open yourself up to a possible BLUFF SHOVE over that bet. This puts you to a very tricky decision; is your opponent bluffing himself, or is he really on the hand he is trying to represent?

Betting with a hand that has no real value, something like a T hi here for instance, does not present that tricky decision is someone shoves over you; you know you've got no real value so you fold see?

If this bet were to derive you some sort of added value, such as a hand like TT/JJ will call it, then it would be ok. Honestly though, the stacks in the pot with you cannot really afford to CALL a 380 bet unless they have a good chance of being best, and TT/JJ does not give that chance here at all. All you will accomplish with a turn bet here (usually) is getting called or raised by BETTER hands, and folding out worse hands.

Also, that 380 bet will put you about 1/3rd into the pot. Do you really want to put that amount into the pot and only find out AFTERWARDS that someone holds a 9 or an A?

The river situation, when you shoved your last 1000 in, is different. At that point, anyone with a 9 is now behind you, and anyone with NO VALUE in their hand before the river may think you too are just playing the board. That means you may get a call from a worse hand. Can you see the difference between the turn bet and your river bet?

So the only real mistake you make in the hand is betting the turn here. You really want to try to avoid betting hands that have showndown value, but that will only get called by better and will fold out worse.

Hope it helps.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 11:05 AM
(#5)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
Thanks for the replies. I guess I was tilting really, yesterday I had a shocking day with only 2 good hands out of 4 tourneys, and the first 5 hands were totally unplayable, so when I saw the KK I thought I could get some chips and put myself in a good position to get some points. I then got a nightmare flop, I knew it when I saw it, which is why I checked, nobody raised so I thought they both missed.

If someone had bet or raised, I would have folded, no questions asked. I would not have taken the risk had someone represented the 9 or A, but because nobody did, I wrongly assumed I was ahead. I seriously underestimated the villain's hand, based on his loose range in previous hands.

Next time I'm in a similar hand I know how I will NOT be playing it now. This is all a part of learning how to play the game, got to make these mistakes positive, so I know how not to play hands in the future.
 

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