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AA tricky river spot 2NL 6max

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AA tricky river spot 2NL 6max - Mon Nov 28, 2011, 03:17 PM
(#1)
idodgedeuces's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 25
I had only been at the table a few minutes into my first session of 2NL 6max ever so no reads on the villian and I don't really have an image as yet. The only things I could say was that he was a little loose and limped a couple of times and had lead at flops and taken them down so I hadn't seen what cards he was playing.

I'm not sure if this is a spot I can bet for thin value or if I should just check behind and show the hand down. I would be grateful for any input as this is the first hand I have ever put up for people to see!

 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 03:52 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,801
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I like the raise pre, also like the bet size on the flop. If the opp has been playing loose, they could easily have A4 in their range and if they're drawing to a straight, I'd want them to pay for it.

Again, like the turn bet. That 9's a brick for the opp unless they had 99 or 78, and I'd definitely value bet.

At this point in the hand, I'd most likely not put them on a set, because they checked both the flop and the turn and if they had a set, they may have checked the flop, but then they should lead the turn for value. Two diamonds also doesn't make much sense, unless they have A4 or 78.

River makes this one a real sticky situation. If they did have A4 or 78 of diamonds, they got there or if they had 7x, they got there for a straight.

Due to the opp checking all 3 streets and never value betting anything, I'd be making another value bet on the river when they check to me. Yes, they could have you beat, but if they did, they played the hand pretty poorly, missing alot of value along the way, by not ever leading out with a value bet.

If the opp had led out on any of the streets, then I'd just check it down and hope they didn't have a 7 for a striaght.

Great hand to have for a first post, as it's one that you definitely have to think on with multiple ways to play it at the end.

Last edited by JWK24; Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 03:55 PM..
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 04:26 PM
(#3)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
I agree with JWK except for the river, I would be checking here to see exactly what my opponent is holding. You might be missing some value, but I think the read you gain will make it worthwhile. You also avoid the possibility that you could face a check raise and have a very difficult decision.

Well played and interesting post!

 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 05:08 PM
(#4)
idodgedeuces's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 25
In game I took the value bet line, if he had a strong hand like a set he should have bet the turn with all the draws on board so I was thinking some kind of pair, maybe like TT or JJ or 44 even makes sense which all miss and can all pay off a bet on the river.

So I bet 50c (maybe a little bit too much?) and he raised to $1.34

Is there any way I can call?

Also thanks for the replies, wasn't expecting them that quick!!!

Last edited by idodgedeuces; Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 05:12 PM.. Reason: forgot to say thanks
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 05:31 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,801
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I'd have made about a 35 cent value bet, if it were me playing. I'd cringe doing it, but I'd call it (and wish I'd have just checked, to get the info on seeing the opp's hand like Joy suggested). If I'd value bet it, I'm anticipating calling a c/r, but cringe as I make it.

Most likely they're going to show 7x here, but with it being 2NL, I'd call the extra to get what the opp had and be certain that the extra I spend on the pot (if I lose the hand) will result in information and a note on the opponent that I can use against them later at this table, or when I saw them at another table in the future.
Noting that they'll slowplay flopping the nuts, be a total calling station with 7x (can be used against them as the next time you get a hand against them, you need to raise your value bet %) OR they could also be trying to bluff a missed draw (with A4 for example), which would get an immediate note from me that they'll bluff any missed draw on the river.
Whatever they'd show after I call it, I want that note to be able to make back any potential loss, with interest, in the future.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 05:39 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,801
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Here's a great video for you to watch on note taking.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...ve-Note-Taking
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 05:46 PM
(#7)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
I would check that river. AA is definitely a medium strength hand on that board, and I almost always check a medium strength hand on the river, depending on reads, position, etc.
This situation just screams at me "check the river."
You're just not getting called here much by worse hands, and called/raised by better ones.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 06:09 PM
(#8)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
I think you have to just check it. What hands with showdown value that he calls the flop and turn with are not two pair plus now? Overpairs? But you would think he'd raise an overpair earlier. Anything else? If you get check-raised to have to fold, but you could totally get bluffed by like JJ. I think you need to just take the risk that you miss out on value from TT/JJ and check it back. Plus you can see what he checked three streets with.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 06:21 PM
(#9)
idodgedeuces's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 25
Thanks for all the great replies, I'm definitely in the check it back camp after looking at it again. I don't think he would have raised an overpair at any point, most players at this level seem to call down on dangerous looking boards with hands like that trying to get to showdown, which is nice when you have a really strong hand.

If I had made a smaller bet on the river and he raised it probably wouldn't have been such a big raise and I might have been able to call, but I wouldn't have liked it very much!

Anyway just so you know I folded and he gave me free info by showing Q4o. Note made, on to the next hand!!

2NL
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 06:31 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,801
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take full advantage of the free info.

Rule # 1 for me at 2NL... don't bluff, it won't work as often as it will at larger stakes and is a -EV play in the long run at 2NL, as opps will call you down with almost anything.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 08:48 PM
(#11)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,481
(Head Trainer)
Betting is definitely thin value but against typical loose-passive 2NL players I think it's a good line. ori's point about what worse hands can call us is a good point, but the answer is vs. typical 2NL weak players any 1 pair hand might call us. Bad players don't read hands well and don't think rationally through them.

If the guy is decent, then I like checking it down. If he's a typical weak 2nl player or recreational player, then I think bet/fold is better. If he were sophisticated bluffer (highly unlikely at 2NL, I'm just saying) then bet/call might be best.

Nice hand, interesting spot... thanks for posting
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 11:59 PM
(#12)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
I am amazed that he even had Q4 here, much less showed it. You can run into some reckless players here, I guess this is one of them.

I haven't played a lot of 6 max, but the games I've played, this would be the exception rather than the rule. Bluffs just don't usually work at this level.

 
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Tue Nov 29, 2011, 07:55 AM
(#13)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
Check it, theres enough value for you in the pot for the medium hand your holding at the moment, btw what made u fold? could u post the full replay?
 
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Tue Nov 29, 2011, 11:31 AM
(#14)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
I agree strongly with Dave's post.

Without any further information I think betting is a good idea at these levels because you will be amazed at what kind of calls typical microstakes opponents are capable of.


Live Trainer



 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 03:45 PM
(#15)
idodgedeuces's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 25
Greetings Glorious Leader (Felix!!), and Dave as well, my 2 favourite trainers! Thanks for your input, very much appreciated.

I'm glad you think I was right at the time to bet, maybe I'm not a complete monkey after all!! It was Felix's sessions about thin value that put the idea there in the first place. Before attending his training I would probably have just checked it down without thinking but seeing some of the hands that will call from opponents in live training made me think that there might be some value to be had. And yes it is amazing what some opponents will call with!!

And in answer to XxTiberxX I bet 50c on the river and he raised to $1.34 which caused me to fold.
 

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