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Some Bankroll Advice Please

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Some Bankroll Advice Please - Wed Nov 30, 2011, 01:25 PM
(#1)
SkinyButPhat's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 258
ChromeStar
Hey PSO People,

I am about to start my $5.00 challenge tomorrow with hopes of being able to increase this 5.00 over the course of a month to hopefully at least 20.00.

Since cash games are pretty much out of my range, I am wondering if anyone had any advice on whether this is a good bankroll strategy for $5.00 :

Play 4 $0.10 360 man NLHE SNG's = $0.40 spent
Play 2 $0.25 45 Man NLHE SNG's = $0.50 spent
Play 1 $1.50 9 man NL Omaha Hi/Lo SNG = $1.50 spent
Play 1 $1.50 9 man NLHE 50/50 SNG = $1.50 spent

TOTAL SPENT = $3.90

This, if I fail to earn any cash, will leave me $1.10 which I can then use to go "crazy" and attempt to play a $1.10 6MAX (2.5K Guar) and try to cash out in a MTT as I feel like I am getting better at these with my monthly play in the PSO and finishes in the top 500 on a semi consistent basis.

Any suggestions would be very welcome !!!

Thanks

SkinyButPhat
 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 04:47 PM
(#2)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
personally I find the 10 cent games a nightmare.

but that said if you only play 4 of them and only 2 45 man 25 cent games.

and 1 of each of the 1.50 STT's

Its a recipe for disaster.

Say you min cash in 2 of the 10 cent games, that's 40 cents for you and get a bad run in the other 6 games.... bomb bankroll gone..

So personally i would pick one of the 10 cent or the 25cents and commit to that. (i would pick 25 cent games my self)

Ahar010 ( a trainer here) is running a series on building from $5-100 bucks

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...nkroll-Builder

With Videos coming soon. Also 19Honu62 has lots of good micro bank building advice

he also challenged the rest of us to join he and play 100 sit and go games all the same level and double up.
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...oy-s-Challenge!

Good luck which every way you decide to go and keep us up to date with how your personal challenge goes.

Grade b
 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 05:00 PM
(#3)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
personally I find the 10 cent games a nightmare.

but that said if you only play 4 of them and only 2 45 man 25 cent games.

and 1 of each of the 1.50 STT's

Its a recipe for disaster.

Say you min cash in 2 of the 10 cent games, that's 40 cents for you and get a bad run in the other 6 games.... bomb bankroll gone..

So personally i would pick one of the 10 cent or the 25cents and commit to that. (i would pick 25 cent games my self)

Ahar010 ( a trainer here) is running a series on building from $5-100 bucks

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...nkroll-Builder

With Videos coming soon. Also 19Honu62 has lots of good micro bank building advice

he also challenged the rest of us to join he and play 100 sit and go games all the same level and double up.
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...oy-s-Challenge!

Good luck which every way you decide to go and keep us up to date with how your personal challenge goes.

Grade b
Agree with the $0.25 games play tight just wait for good cards and u should be ok.
 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 06:20 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Get your behind in as many Astronomer Freerolls and freeolls to win tickets for the .10 Facebook games as possible. Until you have freerolled your way up to at least $20.00 THAT'S where your focus should be.

There is way too much variance in the .10 360's and .10 240 PLO's (especially since Stars knocked back the prizes in these for the .01 that goes to rake...) to think that they are anything even approaching a solid platform to grow a minimal BR. And while the variance is less in the .25 45 and 90 mans you only have enough in your ENTIRE BR for 20 plays in these. That's not nearly enough when you're talking about the entirety of your BR.

You need to be grinding the freerolls including the League games until you have a more solid foundation.

Once you hit $20.00 or better then you have enough to take a shot at trying to grind something like the .25 SNG's. But $20.00 should be your bare minimum in trying this and you should have a cutoff at around $10.00 on that. Hit that number and it's back to freerolling. BTW with everything that Stars offers for free here until you are BR fat you should never sleep on trying to have tickets for those Weekly Round 2 games. Just so long as you also have the time to invest as well.

This isn't a "sexy" recipe for moving forward in the short term,but it's sexier than going Busto. YOUR plan is a recipe that very likely would produce that result.

Now I'm assuming that's your BR---the $5.00. If not and you're just taking $5.00 of your BR aside for a "shot-taking" endeavor then I suggest picking ONE game that you are sufficiently BR'ed to try and stick with that game. Just so long as the $5.00 isn't too large a piece of your BR.

When it comes to grinding up a very short BR try to remember this...

"The hurrier I go,the behinder I get".

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Nov 30, 2011 at 06:24 PM..
 
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Thanks - Wed Nov 30, 2011, 06:48 PM
(#5)
SkinyButPhat's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 258
ChromeStar
Hey there,

Thanks to you three for the advice......looking over your replies it definately does give me something to think about for sure.

In answer to some queries Moxi:

I am an Astronomers grinder........I think I have earned 4 tickets in the month of November and have 2 left. I usually do well in Galileo's and the Limit Omaha, but actually earned a ticket via Hubbles a few days ago. I tried my hand in the Stud Weekly last weekend, and needless to say, got my butt Kicked !!!

Also, the 5.00 is representative of the 5.00 I will earn for finishing in 212th ( as of this post) in the PSO Open League for November, so I have for sure been grinding it out in those all month.

Thanks so much Grade B for the links, I have exams this week, so will take a look on the weekend !! Going back to school in your 30's is tough ! Alsd, a huge CONGRATS on your Member of the Week win, and a sincere "all the best" in the tourneys !!!!

Cheers

Skinny
 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 09:12 PM
(#6)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
with a $5.00 bank you have 4 choices
1. play 2c/4cent limit poker only
2. play 25 cent sit + goes only
3. play 10cent sit + goes only


Boku87 started with $5.00 and earned $100,000 in less than a year
this is how he did it

took $5.00 to 2cent/4cent limit
once his bank reached $10.00 he played 10 cent and 25 cent sit and goes
if bank falls to $4.00 return to 2cent/4cent limit

if bank rises to $15.00 play 10 cent sit and goes , 25 cent sit and goes , and add in a few 50 cent sit and goes

if bank drops to $10.00 stop the 50 centers
if bank rises to $60.00 add in a few $1.00

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/promotions/boku87/
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...0.html?t=2&rc=

rinse and repeat

here is example of boku doing it

Date Tournament Game Buy in Entries Rank Prize
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 8 $51
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 1 $488
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 3 $408
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 6 $68
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $36 180 6 $297
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 6 $99
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 10 $24
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 4 $158
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 7 $55
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 2 $339
31 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 5 $129
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 3 $260
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 2 $532
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 15 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 17 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 1 $488
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 1 $767
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 3 $408
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 11 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 6 $68
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 5 $129
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 2 $339
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 16 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 6 $149
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 4 $158
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 6 $95
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 2 $339
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 2 $242
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 5 $129
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 6 $95
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 3 $236
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 17 $24
30 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 12 $24
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 2 $242
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 6 $99
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 6 $68
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 1 $488
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 2 $242
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 8 $51
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 3 $236
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 1 $488
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 8 $51
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 6 $68
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 6 $95
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
29 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 6 $99
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 4 $309
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 3 $186
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 3 $186
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 15 $24
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 2 $242
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 5 $129
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 4 $141
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 3 $408
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 3 $236
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 12 $24
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 6 $149
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 2 $396
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $38 45 4 $197
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $60 45 4 $309
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 4 $141
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
28 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 3 $186
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 3 $186
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 4 $158
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 7 $69
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 9 $34
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
27 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 15 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 3 $236
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 17 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 12 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 16 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 10 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 11 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 14 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 17 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 6 $68
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $7.70 180 10 $15
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 16 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 3 $236
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 2 $396
26 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 17 $24
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 4 $141
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 11 $24
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 9 $34
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 2 $242
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $22 144 3 $350
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 3 $186
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 14 $24
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
25 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 7 $69
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 2 $396
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $7.70 180 9 $21
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 10 $24
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 5 $129
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 5 $101
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 16 $24
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 16 $24
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 8 $51
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 12 $24
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 3 $236
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 4 $158
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 6 $68
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 2 $242
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 15 $24
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 10 $24
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
24 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 11 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 7 $39
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 2 $396
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 14 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 14 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 1 $594
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 13 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 7 $12
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 11 $24
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 2 $60
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 4 $30
23 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 4 $30
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 18 $24
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 7 $22
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 17 $24
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $27 45 1 $349
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 11 $24
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 2 $60
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 1 $84
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 6 $18
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $7.70 180 1 $378
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 6 $18
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 2 $60
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 4 $30
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 4 $30
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 1 $84
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 5 $44
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 7 $12
22 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 180 5 $129
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 5 $24
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 2 $60
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 3 $77
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 3 $42
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 1 $154
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 1 $84
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 3 $42
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 2 $110
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 4 $55
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 4 $30
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.30+ 180 9 $28
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $12 45 6 $33
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 7 $12
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 4 $30
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 5 $24
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 6 $18
21 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $6.50 45 6 $18
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 4 $15
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 5 $12
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 2 $72
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 2 $72
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 2 $30
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 4 $15
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 2 $30
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 2 $30
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 6 $18
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 7 $6
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 1 $42
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 3 $43
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 6 $9
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 5 $12
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 17 $4.32
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 6 $9
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 2 $30
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 1 $42
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 6 $18
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 1 $42
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 14 $4.32
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 4 $15
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 2 $30
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 1 $108
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 3 $43
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 2 $30
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 7 $6
20 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 11 $4.32
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 6 $9
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 6 $18
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 14 $4.32
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 16 $4.32
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 1 $42
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 5 $12
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 7 $6
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 7 $6
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 4 $15
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 1 $42
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 5 $12
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 3 $21
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 6 $9
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 2 $72
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 7 $6
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 6 $9
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $3.25 45 1 $42
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $2.20 180 1 $108
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 3 $7
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 3 $7
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 5 $4
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
19 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 3 $7
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 5 $4
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 5 $4
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 3 $7
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 5 $4
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 5 $4
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 3 $4
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 2 $6
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 7 $0.39
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 7 $2
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 7 $1.30
18 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 12 $0.40
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 3 $7
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 30 $0.20
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 5 $4
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 3 $4
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 19 $0.30
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 7 $0.39
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 11 $0.40
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 1 $14
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 4 $5
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 35 $0.20
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 2 $10
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 6 $3
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 7 $2
17 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 27 $0.30
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 12 $0.40
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 5 $1.01
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 30 $0.20
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 5 $1.01
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 21 $0.30
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 3 $4
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 1 $3.49
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 5 $2.20
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 4 $1.41
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 20 $0.30
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 7 $0.39
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 7 $0.39
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 7 $0.39
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 3 $4
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 2 $2.42
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 3 $4
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 7 $0.39
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 2 $2.42
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 26 $0.30
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 3 $1.86
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 22 $0.30
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 5 $1.01
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 6 $0.67
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.25 45 4 $1.41
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 11 $0.40
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 22 $0.30
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 33 $0.20
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 5 $2.20
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 14 $0.40
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 31 $0.20
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 2 $6
16 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 14 $0.40
15 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 18 $0.40
15 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 18 $0.40
15 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 21 $0.30
15 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 33 $0.20
15 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 28 $0.20
15 Jul 09 No Limit Hold'em HENL $0.10 360 11 $0.40
 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 09:20 PM
(#7)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,024
(Community Coordinator)
Great post Chris!

Just goes to show what can be done! Inspirational!

Raiser
 
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Wed Nov 30, 2011, 09:31 PM
(#8)
Tomcrockpot's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 140
second the suggestion to stick to limit with low BR

much less variance in limit than NL, but still plenty of donks at the table that you can easily grind up by playing solid TAG poker.

Also I think limit is good for instilling discipline and getting used to calculating your odds and so on
 
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Boku...how could I forget !!!!!? - Thu Dec 01, 2011, 01:21 AM
(#9)
SkinyButPhat's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 258
ChromeStar
Thanks Chris,

I actually followed this challenge when it was happening, and completely forgot about it this week !!

Thanks so much for posting this on the thread, and all of the advice that everyone has given.

I start my adventure in 5.00 BR management tomorrow and will post results every couple of days.

Peace

Skinny
 
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Another silly question - Thu Dec 01, 2011, 02:13 AM
(#10)
SkinyButPhat's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 258
ChromeStar
If I am to go to the .02/.04 FLHE tables, how much to take to a table, the minimum, or some other amount??

Also, what is a good return to remove myself from table?

Say i sit with 20 cents, and five hands later, have 46 cents. Do I get up and go ???

Cash games are confusing to me as it relates to BRM. Am i looking at making any profit and leaving the table, or just trying not to lost my initial .20 cents???

 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 07:20 AM
(#11)
Tomcrockpot's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinyButPhat View Post
If I am to go to the .02/.04 FLHE tables, how much to take to a table, the minimum, or some other amount??

Also, what is a good return to remove myself from table?

Say i sit with 20 cents, and five hands later, have 46 cents. Do I get up and go ???

Cash games are confusing to me as it relates to BRM. Am i looking at making any profit and leaving the table, or just trying not to lost my initial .20 cents???

Ok, 2 points here. The first is quite easy, how much to take..

20c Is not enough in 2c/4c limit to start with. Personally I always join tables with 80c (i.e. 20 big bets)
Why 80c? The reason is you want to be able to get max value for your hands when you get them. Say for example you are dealt KK and villain gets KQs, this being low limit villiain may well reraise your raises pre flop, so pre flop you hit the max number of bets 8c. Board comes K rag rag, rainbow.. The villain will reraise any bet since he is an idiot and when he has top pair thinks he has won, you want to be able to keep raising him to get max number of chips into the pot .. If you came to the table with only 20c that would be the MAX you could get in, so you lose a lot of value. If on the other hand you have 80c to start you can raise each street to the max and get the max 48c in and pick up a much bigger pot. We choose 80c so you have a few chips lee way since you may lose a few chips before you win your first big hand.

Second question, when to stop, is a lot harder..
On the downside, if my stack drops to 40c I will consider leaving the table, depends how you are feeling, and whether your loss is simply variance, or if your play style is not working at that table for whatever reason. It depends how you feel about the table dynamic and the players on it.
As to the upside.. Again tricky.. For me I will usually be happy to call it a day if my stack goes over $1, but often I will play till it hits $1.40 or more, yesterday I found a table with 2 big fish on, and thanks to a nice run of cards I ended up going from $0.80 to $3.25 in a couple of hours! Normally I would have stopped earlier but these players were paying me off, so I stayed at the table until they left and then quit.
It really just depends how you are feeling, if you feel that you are playing well, and comfortable with the table, keep playing, if you feel that it is getting tricky, or you start to feel tilt due to bad cards or whatever then call it a day.

Grade B started a topic in one of the forums called "When to quit a table" which got plenty of good responses on this subject.

Last edited by Tomcrockpot; Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 08:39 PM.. Reason: correction
 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 03:33 PM
(#12)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
look I teach people systems to use in poker , in other words how to play poker
mainly cuz I'm bored USA players cant play . That said many people are thankful to me for my help. So if you want help contact me. After 10 days or less you will never have to ask yourself what should I do at this table or any table. Because you will know.
 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 04:37 PM
(#13)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Dear SkinyButPhat,

I received some great advice on this subject a few weeks ago, you can read it here.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...o-quit-a-table.
 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 08:14 PM
(#14)
hamburglarid's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 131
SilverStar
I think the 10 cent 360's are profitable, but I would want to be starting with at least $10. I would consider trying the 2 cent 990's with your roll.
 
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Thu Dec 01, 2011, 08:28 PM
(#15)
brkn80's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
I would sit with at least .80. If you happen to get in a hand that gets capped each street that alone is .48.

Personally I sit with $2.00 as I tend to sit at the same table for a while and get involved in some hands that I maybe shouldn't.
 
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Fri Dec 02, 2011, 10:46 AM
(#16)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
first of all you shouldnt sit down short stacked with 20 cents.

What I tend to do in NLHE is sit down with 2$ for 2NL and 5$ with 5NL, try to increase with 10% in 50 hands. so in general 2.20 and 5.50, and leave the table. If I didnt succeed and are around my starting stack i will stay for another 50 hands to use the info that ive got the first 50 hands to play. rinse and repeat.

If the case arises that after 50 hands you have 1.80 or 4.50, so 10% off your buy-in ammount, it is most possible that there are too many sharks at your table or mediocre players that have gotten info on you, I tend to switch to another table for new chances..


btw: dont play results orientated, it might seem that I do that, but its not, you shouldnt play loose just because you are not gonna make the 5.50, i review my chip stack after 50 hands, but I keep playing tight and try to make all the right decisions.

Last edited by XxTiberxX; Fri Dec 02, 2011 at 10:51 AM..
 
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Fri Dec 02, 2011, 11:30 AM
(#17)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
In limit games, I normally start with 80 cents at the 2/4 cent tables and $2 at the 5/10 cent tables.

If for some reason I ever get to where a capped hand is above my bankroll, then I'm immediately reloading (haven't had to do that very much though).

2/5 cent NL, I normally sit down with $4.
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 11:53 AM
(#18)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
maybe you can try .50c each table play four tables starting
hit 1-1.25 depending on the players stay if are getting lucky on that table I guess

this might be bad advice tho.


does anyone know how boku87 approached the .02/.04 when he started??

teamcrockpots advice looks really good try that

Last edited by pokerstar671; Sat Dec 03, 2011 at 01:04 PM..
 

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