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Late registration, Why do it.

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Late registration, Why do it. - Sat Dec 03, 2011, 09:10 AM
(#1)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Personally i never deliberately register late for a tourney, but i know some folks do.

Don't get me wrong at 7.30 i sometime think ooo i could play the 1.10 and register late but its not for any fiendish strategic reason, its cos I'm somewhat disorganized.

So PSO'er

what do you do in regards to late reg and what are some of the pros and cons.

Thanks Grade b
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 09:25 AM
(#2)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
Pros.

The blinds are bigger with ante and you can easily double to triple up if you get a good run with your hole cards. Blinds were worth stealing.

Cons.

You will be one of the low stacks and you can easily blinded out when your deal with trash hole cards for a longer time.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 10:45 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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It depends on the type of tourney. Yes, you get to avoid some of the maniacs, BUT, that means you're losing value if you catch a hand against one of them.

I try to always get in up front, but if there is a satellite where my odds will increase a lot by sitting a few minutes, I'll do it there and play from the short stack.
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 12:49 PM
(#4)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
It also depends on what the blinds are when you are getting in and the timing of them. If one can avoid the maniacs, and still get in with plenty of BB's, why not? You will be able to survive a bad run of cards with a stack size that is not far at all from what the average is.

It can be a positive. Just look closely at the tourney info (starting stack, stack average, and all the blind info) for the details. This will determine if it is ok to slide in late.


Dale
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 01:26 PM
(#5)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
It depends on the type of tourney. Yes, you get to avoid some of the maniacs, BUT, that means you're losing value if you catch a hand against one of them.

I try to always get in up front, but if there is a satellite where my odds will increase a lot by sitting a few minutes, I'll do it there and play from the short stack.

OOO sounds good JKW24,

Any chance you could explain a little more as to why sitting a little in a satellite, improves your chances?

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 01:38 PM
(#6)
Stakehorse75's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 865
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I'd definately have to say I'm in favor of late registration, but everything has to be the right set of circumstances.

No Turbo- Blinds go up too quickly in turbos, leaving you with usually closing in on the hour BB is 1000, with usually 3000 chips.

# of pay spots : # of players left in the tournament is a fair ratio, like 1:4 or 1:3 is prime picking.

 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 02:10 PM
(#7)
bluffman520's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 23
I've found that some tournies prize pools are set up favourably for late registration. I sometimes will register late after seeing that a lot of the people have been eliminated. Often half the prize pool left will cash, so i'll try to come and late and gamble.
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 03:09 PM
(#8)
r0ck.carver's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 201
I used to get in right away for all my tourneys but the past three or four months after darkhorse and honu both mentioned it I decided to look at the advantages ....especially in regular(non turbo) tournaments....for the micros where I play most.
Take the .25 cent 50$ added...sometimes 6000 runners enter and if you register late by 20-30 minutes the blinds are still low 25/50 and the no. of runners is down to 2500-3500 persons.....a lot like open league lol.....pay out is top 900+ and with some tight play it's relatively easy to chip up and take a win. It's helped me to finish ITM a lot as the chances of being donked out is far less. Even in the big stack turbo's starting with 2500 or 3000 chips into an average stack size of 4000 or 4500 you are still in the top 60% of the field with 100+ BB and most of the complete maniacs are gone. If I can get in before the average stack is 1.6 x the starting stack and 50+ BB then it usually leaves quite a bit of room to wait for a heater and chip up to where I can wait for the bubble if I'm not running well.
IMO It's well worth the missed opportunities for value as TAG play will usually more than make up for any disadvantages.
I don't play any big stakes so I can't comment on that......but I would think that at a better level of play the advantage would be mostly gone ....
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 05:07 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
Any chance you could explain a little more as to why sitting a little in a satellite, improves your chances?

Grade b
satellites normally pay out a certain number of places. If you can find one with a short field in it, you may for example be able to find one that pays say top 8 places out of say 42 entrants and might not get enough additional entrants to get to paying out 9 places.

If nobody else enters, if you get in at the beginning, it pays 8 of 43 entrants (top 18.6%). Say you wait until 2 min before registration closes (8 min into the tourney), it still pays the top 8 places... but.. a few maniacs are gone and only 32 are left.... that means that the top 25% (8 of 32) get tickets.

If the blinds haven't gone up, etc.. if you enter at the beginning, you have an 18.6% chance of getting a ticket, but if you wait, that increases to a 25% chance of getting a ticket.
 
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Sat Dec 03, 2011, 05:34 PM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
satellites normally pay out a certain number of places. If you can find one with a short field in it, you may for example be able to find one that pays say top 8 places out of say 42 entrants and might not get enough additional entrants to get to paying out 9 places.

If nobody else enters, if you get in at the beginning, it pays 8 of 43 entrants (top 18.6%). Say you wait until 2 min before registration closes (8 min into the tourney), it still pays the top 8 places... but.. a few maniacs are gone and only 32 are left.... that means that the top 25% (8 of 32) get tickets.

If the blinds haven't gone up, etc.. if you enter at the beginning, you have an 18.6% chance of getting a ticket, but if you wait, that increases to a 25% chance of getting a ticket.
Thank you for that i shall watch for these spots from now on.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 08:17 AM
(#11)
Pentire's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
Whether or not late registration is +ev or -ev is down to the player.

A player with excellent post-flop skills will want to be playing with inferior players with stacks as deep as possible relative to the blinds. Therefore, every minute they miss is lost opportunity of positive expectation.

Conversely, a player whose strengths lie in push/fold poker (prbably prefers turbo structure) would benefit from sitting out. Once they enter, the stacks will be shallow and the advantage gained by the better post-flop players will be lessened. Also, antes will probably have kicked in and the blinds will be worth stealing.

Poor players definitely benefit from late registration. They're chances increase with heightened variance. Therefore, missing out on the deeper parts of the tourney where the variance is lower should be beneficial for them.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 11:10 AM
(#12)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
This is very true Pentire,

I threw this question out there after hering TheLangoiler, talk about it in one of the tornie reviews he was doing.

The player had deliberatly turned up late for the tournie and Dave was basicaly saying that he should have registered at the start and if he really didn't want to play with the shovers he could have just sat out for 3 or 4 rotaions and gathered information on his oppenents.

Yet JWK has also supplied Some compelling resons for coming into some Tornies late.

As you say it is going to come down to indevidual preferance.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 11:37 AM
(#13)
gatehouse999's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale442 View Post
It If one can avoid the maniacs, and still get in with plenty of BB's, why not?
I

Dale
Okay so I reg at the start but "maniacs" I'm insulted by that description of me. I'm off to a corner to sulk and gather up ALL my toys.

Last edited by gatehouse999; Mon Dec 05, 2011 at 11:38 AM.. Reason: .
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 12:15 PM
(#14)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
satellites normally pay out a certain number of places. If you can find one with a short field in it, you may for example be able to find one that pays say top 8 places out of say 42 entrants and might not get enough additional entrants to get to paying out 9 places.

If nobody else enters, if you get in at the beginning, it pays 8 of 43 entrants (top 18.6%). Say you wait until 2 min before registration closes (8 min into the tourney), it still pays the top 8 places... but.. a few maniacs are gone and only 32 are left.... that means that the top 25% (8 of 32) get tickets.

If the blinds haven't gone up, etc.. if you enter at the beginning, you have an 18.6% chance of getting a ticket, but if you wait, that increases to a 25% chance of getting a ticket.

imo this is a fallacy, I think late registration actually decreases your chance of getting a ticket. In the above example if you had joined before the start, at 2 minutes before registration closes your chances of getting a ticket are still 25% based on field size but if you've increased your stack it will be even higher. By registering late you're not giving yourself any chance to get chips from the players most eager to give them away, the maniacs and weak players.

Also, even joining at the 2 minute warning does not leave you a linear 25% chance of getting a ticket, as you will have a shorter stack than the average stack and perhaps significantly lower than the chip leaders.

It's tough to calculate all this obviously as the numbers may be subjective, but I'm not sold that registering late gives you any additional edge to win a seat, and in fact I think it's more likely to hurt your chances than help.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 12:18 PM
(#15)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale442 View Post
If one can avoid the maniacs, and still get in with plenty of BB's, why not?
Why would you want to avoid being dealt in with players who are trying to punt their stack? Someone's going to get their chips, why shouldn't you have a shot at them?
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 12:39 PM
(#16)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
Late registration to me is just for freerolls with incredible odds

Yes it does decrease my odds of winning

So I rely on chance but reduce my overall time invested in achieving the prize

Field size 120-150 / Prize: winner Ticket($1.10)

Plenty of games to play



Is this right?
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 01:35 PM
(#17)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
imo this is a fallacy, I think late registration actually decreases your chance of getting a ticket. In the above example if you had joined before the start, at 2 minutes before registration closes your chances of getting a ticket are still 25% based on field size but if you've increased your stack it will be even higher. By registering late you're not giving yourself any chance to get chips from the players most eager to give them away, the maniacs and weak players.

Also, even joining at the 2 minute warning does not leave you a linear 25% chance of getting a ticket, as you will have a shorter stack than the average stack and perhaps significantly lower than the chip leaders.

It's tough to calculate all this obviously as the numbers may be subjective, but I'm not sold that registering late gives you any additional edge to win a seat, and in fact I think it's more likely to hurt your chances than help.
The strength of the field will mean a lot in it too (make sure you know what you're getting into before you enter it and watch the similar ones to see how the play is in them). If they are all solid players and the tourney will not be filled with many maniacs or stations, then registering late will hurt you.... no questions at all about that (why I ALWAYS try to be in any mtt, live or online, at the start and try not to ever sitout a hand, if I can help it).

If there is a ton of maniac play in a satellite only, then the way that I look at the huge stacks compared to mine, when I enter, is that if they got to be a big stack by being a maniac... they will give their chips away as fast as they get them. Hit one hand against them and they'll double you. Also if you have a station that has been getting lucky at your table, then you can up your value bets and get paid off more.

If the blinds go up quickly or you're not VERY good at playing with a short stack, then I'd recommend to start at the beginning..... but, in a slow blind structure if you're good on a short stack and have patience, in the right type of situation, it can benefit you to start late.

If you're a shove/fold type without patience, then NEVER enter anything late.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 01:45 PM
(#18)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
I usually prefer to enter at the start, I want to be around in the beginning to catch my share of "donk" stacks lol. I do enter late sometimes, but only in slow structures where I'm not on a short stack to start. I can play short stacked, but don't really enjoy push or fold type poker.

 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 02:17 PM
(#19)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
It really depends on the tournament or the satellites.

Ordinary tournaments, you're at a disadvantage by registering late, as you will find yourself in the bottom two thirds and you'll need to open up your starting hands. But if you are going to play the 1 or 2 re-buys + add-ons (not the unlimited re-buys) than registering late is a good idea. I'll wait till the average stack reaches 2/3 of the total re-buys and then buy in for the total amount of the re-buys, which means I'm starting in the top 25% of the field. It works for me.

As for satellites, it depends on the odds. Dave, the odds do change. Lately I've been playing the 50 FPP's for a seat to the 215 FPP's. If 50 people are registerd, 11 get tickets (1 in 4.54), but if you wait 12-15 minutes, there are 95 players with 75 left, 22 tickets (1 in 3.41) and you're in the top 33%. This is also working for me, as I've accumulated over 3,600 FPP's doing so in the last 2 weeks. (13 out of 17 satellites)

The rule of thumb for me is: If the odds at start is less than 1 in 7, I will register late (just pass the midway point of the late registration) as the odds will have dropped to about 1 in 5-6 and I will still be in the middle of the pack. If I'm to be lower than the middle of the pack, I won't register.

Just make sure that if you are to register late, you are in a satellite or a tournament worth doing so. But if the odds of getting a ticket or being ITM is high, you need to get in early.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 02:58 PM
(#20)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
As for satellites, it depends on the odds. Dave, the odds do change. Lately I've been playing the 50 FPP's for a seat to the 215 FPP's. If 50 people are registerd, 11 get tickets (1 in 4.54), but if you wait 12-15 minutes, there are 95 players with 75 left, 22 tickets (1 in 3.41) and you're in the top 33%. This is also working for me, as I've accumulated over 3,600 FPP's doing so in the last 2 weeks. (13 out of 17 satellites)
Are you saying that you feel your results would be consistently worse if you registered at the start instead of late?

Are you guys saying the bust rate for the late registration period has a tangible impact on your chances and so by waiting you are able to judge this? Again if there were 36 players left out of 50 registered, that would be true whether you just registered now or if you had registered at the start (ok 37/51 technically). The fact that you waited doesn't change, but waiting allows you to see what that number actually will be and make a decision, so what is the tangible impact of 36 players vs. 42 players left?

Are you saying in many cases it's worth starting with a shorter stack and no chance at much of the low hanging fruit (chips of the donks) in order to determine the above?

I'm still not getting it by am trying.
 

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