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How the hell do you deal with shovers

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How the hell do you deal with shovers - Sun Dec 04, 2011, 12:13 PM
(#1)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
This is winding me up big time, how the hell do you deal with shovers? I was on the button, one person limped, everyone else folded, so I raised my AJo 3x big blind. Player who limped shoves. I called, knowing that these idiots are shoving with air. He had J8 and flops 2 8's.



Another example, similar scenario, except I have pocket 9's, short stacked and shove, someone calls with K4 he hits a K on the river. The amount of river beats i've had in the past few days is ridiculous. When I can be bothered I am going to go through the history and upload every single one.

If I fold my good hands, I have no chance of winning, but when my good hands are getting beaten by crap that gets lucky, what can I do about it? Just ride it out and lose everything I've worked for?

How do I deal with this, because its driving me mad to the point im going to permanently delete all traces of poker from my computer and forgetting the game exists. I am sick of losing to idiots this way. The game is no longer fun. Its making me angry.

Last edited by electrux_hcb; Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 12:17 PM..
 
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Sun Dec 04, 2011, 02:05 PM
(#2)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
If youre playing in the PSO, I wouldnt play anything except aa or kk and stall,stall stall. If you are playing sng's then keep getting your money in good and you will eventually win more than you lose. As some very good players here have tried to tell me time and time again, poker isnt about winning the pot rather its about making the correct decisions.
 
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Sun Dec 04, 2011, 02:19 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Another example, similar scenario, except I have pocket 9's, short stacked and shove, someone calls with K4 he hits a K on the river. The amount of river beats i've had in the past few days is ridiculous. When I can be bothered I am going to go through the history and upload every single one.

If I fold my good hands, I have no chance of winning, but when my good hands are getting beaten by crap that gets lucky, what can I do about it? Just ride it out and lose everything I've worked for?

How do I deal with this, because its driving me mad to the point im going to permanently delete all traces of poker from my computer and forgetting the game exists. I am sick of losing to idiots this way. The game is no longer fun. Its making me angry.


We all feel your pain. It is part of any game that involves an element of luck. So let me take a crack at some of the comments. These are my thoughts and I'm no expert.



Your replay hand:
I'm going to take this as one of the PSO games and in the early stages. Yes, your hand was a good one, a Group Four hand. The generic recommendation for these is to fold to anyone who raises. Now you made a good move based on the table dynamics, but the player did not respect your bet. At that point, he committed you. I'm thinking the mistake was pushing such a high bid, a quarter of your stake. A bet of one big blind would result in the same shovemonkey move by your opponent, but you could withdraw from the hand with your dignity and bankroll.

Pocket 9's:
As the short stack, you had to shove with the best hand possible. You did this and managed to isolate your opponent. So let's look at the odds. According to the school lessons, you had the other player beat, but not dominated. Since he had one overcard, your odds to win were 54% for that hand. Put another way, you had a 46% chance to lose, which you did. Good call under the circumstances, but it isn't so unusual.

River beats:
Bet if you kept any records of your hands, the number of times your winning hand after the turn that lost would equal the number of times your losing hand at the river became a winner. It is human nature to remember whenever the unexpected happens. As I've said before, if the deal is honest, and there is any chance of reversing a hand, it will at some point. If you watch the pros on television, it happens to them. Bet it is just as frustrating to them when a won hand loses on the river to a long shot.

Good versus crap:
Again, I'm betting you've gone all-in in desperation late in a game and it won. That puts the same hurt on the other player. The thing you want to do is be sure you have the odds favoring you. That does not guarantee a win, but if you can say the move was proper, accept the outcome.

Riding it out:
You're playing MTT. Patience isn't a virtue, it's a necessity. I'll be the first to admit that the early rounds put me to sleep when I did play the PSO before Black Friday. Haven't you ever gone over a dozen or more hands card dead? That's the nature of any game where chance plays a part.

Dealing with it:
This is as variable as fingerprints. No two people cope with the ill fortune of the cards the same way. You need to find what works for you. Some of the suggestions I have seen over the time of this forum includes:

1 ---- Play the donkey in a play money game. It can be exhilerating.
2 ---- Try a different poker variation.
3 ---- Take an hour away from the computer. Fight that urge to punch the monitor.
4 ---- Examine your hand histories where you crashed. Right play or dumb move?
5 ---- Learn a new poker variation.
6 ---- Curse and scream. Nobody hears and its a great stress relief.
7 ---- Count to ten and reload a new game.

Mine is usually a combination of 6 + 7 from that list.
 
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Sun Dec 04, 2011, 03:05 PM
(#4)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
Thanks for the replies. I understand its all a part of the game but it just really gets to me when I go for ages with nothing. Yesterday in a PSO open skill, I was watching someone playing incredibly loose and hitting almost everything he played, including what he busted me out on.

It frustrates me even more when I try to play properly, according to the guides, betting at the right times and the right places, only for my chips to just disappear into nothingness, and theres people playing random hands out of position, calling bets and hitting flops that good players would not see.

I was trying to turn my 50c I won from the league into a dollar so I could enter the world record tourney but that plan failed. If I waited for the shove monkeys to bust out, I ran out of chips.

I've had a few ok hands since I made the above post, nothing spectacular but at least i've won some hands.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 04:19 AM
(#5)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
Thanks for the replies. I understand its all a part of the game but it just really gets to me when I go for ages with nothing. Yesterday in a PSO open skill, I was watching someone playing incredibly loose and hitting almost everything he played, including what he busted me out on.

It frustrates me even more when I try to play properly, according to the guides, betting at the right times and the right places, only for my chips to just disappear into nothingness, and theres people playing random hands out of position, calling bets and hitting flops that good players would not see.

I was trying to turn my 50c I won from the league into a dollar so I could enter the world record tourney but that plan failed. If I waited for the shove monkeys to bust out, I ran out of chips.

I've had a few ok hands since I made the above post, nothing spectacular but at least i've won some hands.
PSO is different from a normal MTT, because its free, and because of that people just sign on and shove all they want, its not gonna hurt their BR.

only play AA or KK for the first hour, after that you can loosen up.

Btw did you play 5 x 10 cent 360 mans from that 50 cents? its a great way to make money.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 12:56 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,847
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
I understand its all a part of the game but it just really gets to me when I go for ages with nothing.
You need to learn how to deal with this, especially if you ever want to play a live tourney. In those, I've been card dead for over 6 hours straight before (never saw an A or face card or pair for over 4 hrs). Until you learn patience, if you want to win a tourney, you better be extremely, extremely lucky.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 12:57 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,847
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[QUOTE=XxTiberxX;315549]PSO is different from a normal MTT, because its free, and because of that people just sign on and shove all they want, its not gonna hurt their BR.

[QUOTE]

WRONG! I've seen those shove monkeys in live tourneys with buy-in's anywhere from $25 up to $350 (the largest buy-in I've ever played live). They'll be in EVERY tourney.
 
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Mon Dec 05, 2011, 03:34 PM
(#8)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
I think you dealt with it just fine.

I mean if you do not want to play for stacks when you are a 70% favorite, when DO you want to play for 'em?

Seriously though, the way you deal with 'em is this:

1) Range 'em.

Make sure you are reading the frequency of their shoves, and guaging the hand strengths they are shoving on properly.

2) Identify your risk tolerance.

Once you can get an idea of the shover's range, now you gotta determine what advantage you are going to need to play for stacks against them. The deeper your stack in relation to the blinds, the bigger your advantage should be to want to play against the villain. Don't forget the gap concept in poker; even a moron shoving every hand can wake up with AA, so make sure you have the equity you want versus the top HALF of his total range.

3) Accept that sometimes you will lose.

There is NEVER a pre flop situation that is heads up where a person can KNOW he is drawing dead. Any 2 cards CAN win, so sometimes they will. If you get a big stack, then lose half of it to a maniac shover, the last thing you want to do is steam off the rest of your chips because that knuckle dragger hit a 2 out-er against you.

hope it helps.
 

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