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AA button - Tue Dec 06, 2011, 01:10 PM
(#1)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
This is ****ing ridiculous. This basically undone all the points I got this morning, its so unfair that I have to lose ranking points because of complete ****ing idiots like this. The PSO league is fundamentally flawed and punishes playing, its no wonder people just sit out for an hour.



This came exactly 2 hands after this one:



And yes I know I should fold to shovemonkeys, but the reason I did not raise the QQ was because i knew if I raised, someone would 3-bet shove it. And the AA raise was actually a misclick. But either way, I dont enter a tourney to sit out every hand until the idiots are busted out. I enter to play, and if playing is punished in the PSO league then I guess I wont bother with it any more.

Last edited by electrux_hcb; Tue Dec 06, 2011 at 01:26 PM..
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 01:23 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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AA, while it IS the favorite, in a 4-handed pot with the exact cards from the two that showed them and (either random or top 15% from the other) will only win 57% of the time.

That means that you're basically going to lose almost every other hand in this situation.

It may not have made a difference in this hand, due to the other opps, but instead of min raising when it gets to you, I'd have shoved right then. It may have gotten an opp to drop, it may not have..... if it did, then your odds of winning the hand go up.

While still a favorite, AA plays worse when up against multiple opponents. If only against the two opps that showed their hands, you up your win % from 57% to 66% (win 2 of every 3, instead of every other time). If only against one of the opps that showed, then you'd raise your win % to 80%, which is much higher.

Even with a premium hand, the more opps that are in a pot, the more likely you are to lose with the premium hand.

To be successful in the league, you not only need patience, but you need to pick your spots and play the hands where you are a large favorite and be aggressive when that happens.
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 01:26 PM
(#3)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
You had huge equity in a fourway pot nothin' wrong with that! I'd take those odds all day long...
Second one he was simply semibluffing and caught one of his 12 outs
Flawed I believe is your perception that your big starters are always gonna hold.. Just sayin'
Ya only 57% to quadruple your chips like i said all day long!

Last edited by mtnestegg; Tue Dec 06, 2011 at 01:30 PM..
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 01:36 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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In the QQ hand, there are a number of things that you really should have done differently.

Preflop, you have a premium hand and need to raise. If nothing else, then to try and isolate one opponent (but here it's for that AND for value). When you limp into a pot, you invite other players into the hand... which will lower your win% when you have a premium hand.

On the flop, you have an overpair to the board and need to bet it. The opp that bet, since they limped preflop will most likely have a J, set of 3's or 4's, or two spades. If you raised preflop and then followed up with a continuation bet on the flop, you'll have a much better idea of what the opp is holding based on whether they call/raise/fold to your c-bet.

The 9 on the turn, shouldn't have changed anything unless the opp has J9 suited. When the opp shoves, it really looks like it's probably a set of 3's or 4's or a nut flush draw (which is what they had). They could have AA or KK and be ahead of you too, but those hands should have raised preflop. I'm calling their bet here unless the opponent was very, very tight and wasn't playing many hands (in which case, you're probably already beat).

When you get into this type of situation, you want to be the aggressor, not play the hand passively. If you play premium hands passively, you're going to get yourself into a lot more trouble than you should be in with them.
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 01:41 PM
(#5)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Another person comes here to show us how he doesn't understand basic poker concepts while acting like "I AM SO PRO AND AWESOME". Maybe we can get a live-training from lango on that one?
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 02:52 PM
(#6)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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You're right on the AA hand...they are total idiots...so why didn't you just jam and get them to stack off preflop? The chances of everyone folding to your 4-bet shove are pretty close to zero. Maybe one or two of them fold, but that is going nowhere!...and you should be happy about them being so awful. You quadruple up here so often!! But just jam pre rather than letting them get away from their trash postflop. About 60% you quadruple up which is hugely ++++EV.

Don't be results-oriented. Sometimes you'll lose. It happens. All you can do is get your chips in in +EV spots.

Last edited by oriholic; Tue Dec 06, 2011 at 02:54 PM..
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 05:14 PM
(#7)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
Puciek who are you talking about? Not me I hope, I come here because I DONT know Poker very well and am trying to learn.

JWK24 The simple reason I limped with the QQ hand is because EVERY time I make a raise at this stage, someone shoves. Then I would have to fold if I wanted to stay in the tourney, because as the 2 hands I posted shows, the run of the cards is rarely with me. So if I raise these hands pre-flop then someone 3-bet shoves me, I am screwed.

I dont get many premium hands, and when they happen early in the tourney I either have to take huge risks with them, or waste them. It infuriates me when I take risks with them and people have shoved me with complete crap and beat me, as in the AA hand.
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 05:17 PM
(#8)
Puciek's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
Puciek who are you talking about? Not me I hope, I come here because I DONT know Poker very well and am trying to learn.
Nope, you come here to rage and call other donkeys "shitheads" and other nice words. This is nowhere near learning.
 
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Tue Dec 06, 2011, 05:32 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
JWK24 The simple reason I limped with the QQ hand is because EVERY time I make a raise at this stage, someone shoves. Then I would have to fold if I wanted to stay in the tourney, because as the 2 hands I posted shows, the run of the cards is rarely with me. So if I raise these hands pre-flop then someone 3-bet shoves me, I am screwed.

I dont get many premium hands, and when they happen early in the tourney I either have to take huge risks with them, or waste them. It infuriates me when I take risks with them and people have shoved me with complete crap and beat me, as in the AA hand.
If an opp shoves a worse hand when you hold a premium one, that's exactly what you want to have happen. You're not going to win all of them, but it puts you in the optimal situation (+EV). As long as you're using good bankroll management with your tourney buy-in's, you'll be ahead in the long run (which is the entire goal).
Every time you limp with a premium hand, it increases the % that you'll lose with it, due to the extra opponents being in the pot.

Premium hands at the beginning of a tourney will always involve a larger risk, but if the reward is worth the risk, then you want to be playing them.
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 11:59 AM
(#10)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
OK fair enough. I was pissed off when I wrote the original post.

Heres a similar hand, I was not too impressed when 2 people after me called the shove, but when I saw that they all had an A I relaxed a bit.

 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 12:13 PM
(#11)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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If you're in a multiway pot with QQ, that's really the best type of situation to be in. If all the other opps have an A or K in their hand, then the number of outs for them is compromised. 3 of them with an A and nobody with a K, means they have ONE single out on you (anything else will take at least 2 running cards).

Same thing for KK in a multiway pot, you want as many of them to have a single A as possible, to counterfeit their outs.
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 12:42 PM
(#12)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrux_hcb View Post
OK fair enough. I was pissed off when I wrote the original post.
so at least you and puciek have something in common
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 07:45 PM
(#13)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
QUOTE=mtnestegg;316443]so at least you and puciek have something in common[/QUOTE]

ROFLMAO

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