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5NL TPTK 3 bet pot vs LAG

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5NL TPTK 3 bet pot vs LAG - Wed Dec 07, 2011, 03:43 AM
(#1)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Villain is 36/32/4 - 61 hands

3 bet and stacked off with Q8s with 40bb's.

A few hands before this I doubled his stack when I ran KK into AA pre

Just a check up cos it's been niggling at me as to whether this is spew long term

Villain is aggressive pre but seems to tighten up post i.e. one and done kinda guy

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1548621
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $7.12
BTN: $4.74
Hero (SB): $5.00
BB: $6.40

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with A :club: K :spade:
1 fold, BTN raises to $0.17, Hero raises to $0.60, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.43

Flop: ($1.25) A :heart: 3 :club: Q :club: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.90, BTN raises to $4.14 all in, Hero calls $3.24

Turn: ($9.53) T :heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($9.53) 4 :club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

Thanks
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 04:57 AM
(#2)
SUPER RASCAL's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 47
well played sir. 3 bet preflop with AKoff against a LAG's wide range is perfect. U hit the flop with TPTK, typically good for winning small pots, u bet, the villain reraises all in (odd play for a player who is aggresive pre but tightens us post, but given there's a flush draw on the flop, it's likely he's semi-bluffing, this is never a value bet) good call!
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 05:11 AM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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With your pre flop raise, you created an SPR of just under 4 going to the flop.

Versus the villain's perceived range (by your written perceptions here that is), you really are going to call a jam more often than not on the flop when you make top/top in that size pot with these size stacks. 4 to 6 SPR is the zone where TPTK and over pairs are pretty much ready to stand versus most jams, so versus the player you are describing you really should be ready to do that if you spike.

After you lead your tptk, you should almost always be calling his jam. The only thing which would dissuade me to do so on the hand I was hoping to flop is if I have NEVER seen him jam over a 3/4ths pot C-Bet. But if there was going to be a reluctance to call a jam when you hit tptk, you really should not be 3betting AK up to 60c pre flop in the first place...

Sure, he can be on A3/AQ/33/QQ here, but he can also be on something like AJ/2 clubs/KJc/KTc. Heck, he could even be hoping you have KK or JJ and is jamming a total air ball to bluff you. You set yourself up to make the call a simple one, so pull the trigger.

...and have faith in your read.

Hope it helps.

-JDean

(Note: A3o and 33 are just outside of a straight 36% range, but if he is opening tighter in earlier position, he might be wide enough on the BTN to include A3o or 33 in his range, but as super Rascal alludes to, is this guy REALLY jamming a set or top 2 pair here when you;ve shown such interest in the pot? He may if you have shown you'll stack off with 1 pair, but it is a bit un-likely)

Last edited by JDean; Wed Dec 07, 2011 at 05:21 AM..
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 05:23 AM
(#4)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteridophyta View Post
3 bet and stacked off with Q8s with 40bb's.
Curious if he did this pre or post, and if you have any idea why he did it.

I'm a tad rusty, but I'm not really concerned with your play here. Even 4-handed, if the villain is playing over a third of hands dealt, his postflop hand strength won't often be strong, so he's possibly settling for draws to ship here. If the villain is aggressive at all postflop, then a ton of suited card combos could be in his range.

Also, from the villain's perspective, your range is probably wide. You could easily be the one on a draw here, so this behaviour could be him protecting his one-pair hands like AJ, since what else is he going to do with them? Fold?

Seeing sets, AQ and possibly A3 is the risk here, but if the villain is loose at all, then this seems like a good call, since there are no reverse implied odds; there's only one barrel to worry about. For me, the definitive question is, what is his 3bet calling range preflop? Is AJ in his range? AT-A2? 7c6c, etc.? If his flatting range is tight there, then I think you can find a fold. I think this is a call in absence of a very strong read, though.

Hi everyone, BTW.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Wed Dec 07, 2011 at 05:26 AM..
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 05:29 AM
(#5)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Cheers guys.

Yeah it does help a lot. It's one of those hands where I felt at the time I made the correct play but it was a niggler. I'm not looking to spew in 3 bet pots. It's bloody expensive

I forgot to mention I'd been 3 betting the s**t out of the table which makes the call even easier now that I think about it. He could be taking a stand with any pair, PP, flush draw or worse aces.

Thanks a bunch guys,

Pt
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 04:30 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Hi everyone, BTW.
Great seeing you back Panicky
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 04:33 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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I liked the 3-bet pre. Good choice. The only hand I'd be worried about on the flop is AQ and since there is an A both on the board and in our hands, that lowers the chance of it happening and with only 1 hand I'm really worried about, I'm calling the flop raise.
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 05:36 PM
(#8)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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I think you played the hand well. With that kind of board you could have bet a little bit smaller on the flop. 10-15 cents less maybe. You don't want to make AJ, AT, or KQ an easy fold on the flop for villain.

After he reraises you all-in on flop you really do have to call against a loose aggressive player(with no other special reads). I say this because of his preflop range and what range his all-in implies:

You can basically rule out a total bluff from his all-in range here. He knows you most likely have a hand like AK.

Hands like 33 are very unlikely due to the preflop play. Most people aren't going to call a large 3-bet with pocket 3's.

Hands like AQ, QQ are possible but still unlikely. It really makes no sense to reraise shove the flop with those hands, as it will get most worse hands to fold. It also breaks the flow of the hand. You were the preflop 3-better, and you made a large flop bet. With AQ or QQ it would make so much more sense for villain to allow you the opportunity to barrel big again on the turn and pot commit yourself(NOTE: This is only true because he has position on you. He doesn't have to risk giving your a free river card if you do not bet the turn).

Hands like AJ, AT, KQ drawing type hands are much more likely for villains all-in range. More often than not suited club(s) giving these hands the flush draw.

In general large flop all-in donk bets or reraises will represent weakness or at best a good draw. Thing is, even against a really good draw it will be close to a coinflip so folding a hand like TPTK would be a mistake that would cost you money in the long run. Good call.
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 06:37 PM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post

You can basically rule out a total bluff from his all-in range here. He knows you most likely have a hand like AK.
I would surely agree that an air ball bluff is not nearly the most likely hand he has here, but I'd not go so far as to "rule it out" entirely.

You gotta remember, this is an aggro villain, who may be sick of firing 1 bullet and giving up.

He may also be sick of people targeting his 36% range with with 3Bets that he feels obliged to call after raising weak, so he wants to win THIS ONE no matter what.

He may see PT's 3Bet as too LARGE, and likes the fact he might take down $1.20+ here in case PT folds; as we say in the write up's though, PT should NOT fold tptk BECAUSE the pot is large in relation to the stacks. The villain may not know that though, and he may think a bluff has a chance.

So yeah, while I really do not think this is total air, and while I think some sort of semi bluff makes up the bulk of his un-made hand jam range, I do not think you can rule out a bluff ENTIRELY.

Even a 1% chance he is on total air is still infinately more than 0%
 
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Wed Dec 07, 2011, 10:59 PM
(#10)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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Thats a good point JDean. I think we are in agreement. The way I look at it, I'm ranging his total air all-in bluff so low that it isn't worth considering. I guess what that exactly means is anywhere from 0%-5% chance. Of course the odds are greater than 0% as we don't know the villains two actual cards haha. In my opinion though and based of this info, if I was in the middle of this hand I would not consider a complete air bluff a possibility when trying to make a decision.
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 12:08 AM
(#11)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
...and TBH, since you are so far ahead of a total air ball bluff, it really just adds a tad to your willingness to call really.

I would sort of rate a chance of him being on an airball bluff with about the same weight of importance as I'd consider suitedness in importance when I was contemplating a 5BB shove over a limper with AK...

...me being on AKs would be NICE to see, but it really isn't changing my mind that I'm not suited.

Just like seeing him on an airball bluff here would be NICE to see, but even if he says "I'm not on an airball bluff" and I believe him, there are enough factors that my mind isn't changing in this spot.

So yeah, we are not in dis-agreement at all.

The only reason I threw this point out here is because I talked about the fact he MIGHT be on an airball bluff in my post, so I figured I'd make sure that was in the right perspective, after you said you'd totally rule it out.


Last edited by JDean; Thu Dec 08, 2011 at 12:11 AM..
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 04:34 AM
(#12)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Awesome feedback, thanks guys.

So.....anyone want to know what happened?
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 08:27 AM
(#13)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Sure...sock it to us!
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 08:45 AM
(#14)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
AQ for top 2

The cheek of it
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 08:59 AM
(#15)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
AQ... haha.

With the way the hand played out, with the large 3-betting preflop, you simply can't get away from A's K kicker with that flop. In the long run it is going to be the profitable play. Villain really had no business even seeing the flop with AQ anyways. He should have 4-bet or folded. Bad plays that make no sense get rewarded sometimes though. Wish you better luck next time!
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 09:55 AM
(#16)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Me too

It wasn't a terrible call on his part in all fairness. I had been squeezing and 3 betting a tonne and a flat IP with AQ is OK I think (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I only wish it had been AJ instead
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 11:19 AM
(#17)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
If I had seen you 3betting and working squeezes quite a bit, I'm flatting you on AQ for the same reason you 3bet AK...the pot sizes favors the types of hands you make with those holdings.

AJ...that I'm mucking to a 3bet, as I would with jsut about any pp JJ or TT and under (depending on how frequently you were banging).

But then, those are the risks you take, and it is/was the reasoning, and the use of your read info, that matters...not the result.
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 01:16 PM
(#18)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I think with the spr this low due to the 3b and vs a guy who has a wide preflop range, this is an easy spot to get it in.

I did an equity run to confirm... let's say he's shoving witth better hands: AA, QQ, 33, AQ, A3 (all of which could be in his range as loose as he is pre, although he may 4b AA or QQ I chose not to discount any of those combos to make it worse for us), worse hands that are combo draws (KcJc, KcTc, JcTc), and worse hands that are specifically top pair+back door straight draw (AK, AJ, AT). Against this range we're an equity favorite:


Board: Ah Qc 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.396% 37.52% 07.88% 14114 2964.00 { AA, QQ, 33, ATs+, KcJc, KcTc, JcTc, ATo+ }
Hand 1: 54.604% 46.73% 07.88% 17578 2964.00 { AcKs }

If we removed the AA combo, some combos of QQ (assuming he'd 4b sometimes pre with these), add in some additional A-x hands or some non-combo draws (naked flush draws), all that only makes our equity better.

Get it in.
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 04:49 PM
(#19)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
All in all a bon tempi all in

So impressed with the amount of feedback.

I'll start posting here more often
 
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Fri Dec 09, 2011, 05:11 AM
(#20)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Nh. He can be shoving a ton of stuff here like any ace and flushdraw really.

I think this is exactly what I would be looking for when I 3bet a guy with AK who I have seen stacking off pre with Q8 already. Fistpump, call and be bitter when he magically shows up with just the tiny part of his range that crushes me


Live Trainer




Last edited by PSO-xflixx; Fri Dec 09, 2011 at 05:14 AM..
 

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