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AA button Vs QQ.. did i play it wrong??

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AA button Vs QQ.. did i play it wrong?? - Thu Dec 08, 2011, 05:16 AM
(#1)
kk2106's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner..

hi,
I wanted to get this hand analysed and to know if i played it wrong or did i play it right and just got unlucky.. The person holding QQ had been pretty active in the previous few hands and was getting 3 bet a lot pre flop and never seemed to release before seeing a flop.. So when i woke up with AA on the button and villain raised 3X i thought it was a perfect spot to try and build a big pot...
But after the flop came villain decided to lead out with a nice sized bet and i was suspicious so i just decided to call and see what happens on the turn.. On the turn when he checked i was still suspicious and decided to check behind.. But after getting a check for the 2nd time on the river i finally decided to put him on a hand like QJ or KQ and decided to value bet my aces up only to be check raised.. For some reason i did not put him on a flush draw at any point of the hand coz i felt like he would have checked on the flop with a flush draw.
I hope i've made my perspective clear during the hand.. I would really appreciate a nice analysis of the hand and i wanted to know did i play it wrong and if yes, where exactly?? Thank you..
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 06:13 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,032
(Community Coordinator)
Hi there,

Your isolation 3 bet with the best starting hand one can have was perfect and it achieved what you wanted. You are now heads-up pre-flop with the original raiser. The fact that he flat called your 3 bet indicates that he too has a premium holding and is happy to see the flop.

Post flop the villain puts out a 65% pot bet which is a good sized bet and would indicate that he's happy with the flop and caught a piece of it. You flat call here which I think is fine.

I didn't like the check check on the turn however. I think when he checks the turn like that it means either one of two things,

1. He's made a very strong hand and he's slow-playing you, or
2. He's holding a Q and is now scared of the second 9 on the board putting you on possible trips or an over-pair (Kings or Aces).

There is only one way to find out what he's doing here and checking back isn't it. Throw out a sizeable bet on the turn. If he's strong he'll at least call and most probably re-raise. It's safe to assume if he does this that your premium 1 pair holding is beat and you can release your hand to any further bet.

If he folds to your turn bet then you take the pot.

His re-raise to your river bet screams that he is holding a monster, get out of there. Big bets like that on the river usually have 1 pair holdings beat.

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 07:28 AM
(#3)
pteridophyta's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Don't post the results because it will affect peoples analysis of the hand.

Not too keen on 3 betting so small pre flop. Your giving small PP's good odds to call. I'd make it something like $2.50 or somewhere around there.

Great flop for your hand cos your gonna get action. I'd probably raise to $7 and get it in. There are a tonne of hands in his shoving range that you beat. Flush draws, straight draws, AQ, KQ, KK

As played

On the turn I'd bet for value for the same reasons as above. Villain rarely has a 9 so no need to worry about it falling on the turn

As played, the river is a bet fold. Flush and straight draws all came in not to mention KK (though KK are probably betting turn)

Pt
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 08:02 AM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Pre-Flop, the effective stack here is the $26.29 (105BB) of the villain who open raises here.

Before I get into things, I am curious: how did you arrive at $1.75 as the amount you would re-raise?

This is a key point to think about before you 3bet, as it kind of dictates a lot of what you are going to want to do after the flop...

You state in your post "it was a perfect spot to build a big pot", and I agree 100% with that sentiment: pre flop it does not get any better than AA.

What I do NOT agree with is that your raise of 1.33 times more that the 75c lead bet is really going to work to build a big pot.

Consider...

A STANDARD value 3bet, one that looks to build a big pre flop pot, would be anywhere from about 1.5 times the lead bet amount, and 2.5 times that bet amount.

To be in line with this standard, your 3bet should have been AT LEAST $1.88 to go, and more along the lines of $2.65/$2.75 to go.

If you recognize that this player is loose in his raise standards, and if you recognize he never seemed to fold to a 3bet, then your nut pre flop hand truly likes the larger 3bet size by you, right?

What a bet in the $2.50-ish range does is sets up a favorable Stack to Pot Ratio for your AA (assuming the villain calls). Top pair/good kicker hands, and hands that tend to flop as over pairs to the board, tend to benefit from the lower end SPRs between 4 to 5, or even a bit less. The amount you bet, assuming you get jsut the single caller, leaves you with an SPR a little over 6 going into the flop; that's just a bit to much left in the villain;s stack for your AA to really like. You see...

Making a pot large enough to create an SPR in this range simplifies your post flop decisions, as it makes it much harder for someone to check/raise a C-Bet by you on a bluff. The biggest "worry" a hand like AA has is that someone flops a set or 2 pair, as your AA will tend to be strong enough to cost you a good bit in that situation. So the LARGER pot (the lower SPR around 4 or so) tends to simplfy your decision process on the flop...

Please note: I'm not saying your pre flop bet sizing is truly "bad". If you felt that someone else behind you might flat along, or even raise what might look like a weak 3Bet by you, by all means bet a min or near min 3bet. If you really want to build a big pot (and you do), especially against someone open raising who does not like to fold to a 3bet very often, make your bet larger because you are probably only getitng that single caller, see?

Continuing...

When the villain leads out for 65% of the pot on the flop, you flat.
Your stated reaosn is that you think his lead into your pre-flop 3bet feels "suspicious".

If that is the case, what are you suspicious of? QQ? 99? 44? Surely not Q9, Q4, or 94 (unless this guy is an uber-maniac).

THIS is the spot to try your small-ish raise, especially if you are suspicious. If you make it around $5.75 or $6 to go here, and he JAMS, you can possibly still get away from your hand if you are really suspicious. If you really do not like that much (and to be honest, I don't like it a ton), then your flat is fine as long as you remember WHY you are flatting...you are doing it because you are suspicious of his flop lead.

Whenever you make an action in a hand, you really must be prepared to live by the implicatiosn of that action. Flatting rather than raising has the implication that you are allowing the villain to set his own price for his hand, and if he is drawing at clubs or an oesd (or both), you are doing nothing to prevent him from doing that. This brings me to the only real "issue" I have with your play of this hand...

If you flat the flop bet, and if you check along on the turn, why do you bet on the river when the river card completes just about every conceivable draw on the board?

If you are playing the flop and turn under a suspicion that you are beat, then that river card almost certainly added threats to your AA to this board, right?
It also represents a "scare card" for the villain here if he holds a hand like AQ, and he is not hugely likely to call a slightly over half pot bet very often, right?

I can only really conceive of AQ or KQ being hands that might call that you beat now, and neither of those would have checked the Turn if this is an actve and aggro villain. To me, unless this guy think YOU bluff a lot of scare cards, there is no conceivable way he is calling on QJ with that river. That makes your river bet on a single over pair pretty thin value. When the villain C/R's you pretty hard, that is almost NEVER a bluff, so you really should have mucked.

So the bottom line is this:

- Pre-flop your 3bet size was a tad small, but at most this is a small mistake.
I only noted it to gie you something to think about for the future.

- On the flop your flat is fine if you are feeling suspicious about his donk lead into your 3bet.
But if you have suspicions on the flop, you have to remember why you had them, and configure your later decisions to tose facts.

- Turn play is fine if you still are suspicious.

- River Play was a tad spew-y.
Your bet behind the villain's 2nd check isn't necessarily without reason, but in light of your suspicions on the flop, you MUST see it as thin value. If you are betting on thin value and get check-raised strongly, the thing to do is muck, muck, MUCK...

So except for that river call, there is nothing hugely wrong with how you played this hand. The problem is that it was the river call that cost you most of your loss here. Remember...

AA is a hand with which you will usually win a small pot, or lose a big one. - Doyle Brunson

Try to avoid making that loss bigger than it needs to be by calling a big river check raise when you had suspicions all along.

Hope it helps.

-JDean

Last edited by JDean; Thu Dec 08, 2011 at 08:04 AM..
 
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Thu Dec 08, 2011, 03:37 PM
(#5)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Why are you 3-betting preflop rather than flatting? Nothing wrong with it, but is there any reason other than "I have the best hand LDO"?

Okay, so what do you think his calling range is here? Is AQ+, JJ+ a reasonable

On the flop you're basically beating AQ, AK, KK and bluffs. You're not getting another penny from AK or bluffs, so a raise really targets AQ and KK. And that's if AQ is even still in the hand. KK will pay you off, but I think he mostly has QQ, KK, and air here, so just calling is best. On the turn his range is the same. I like the check behind to prevent the stack-a-donk play. On the river K he checks once more. If he has AK he finally has something. If he has QQ or KK you're dead. I'd call a bet, since he can have AK. (Bet flop, give up turn, spike river) But I don't think there's much he'd call a raise with. When he checks it looks like he's given up, but other than bluffs what hands can he have here? QQ, KK, AK. Would he really check his AK now that he finally has something? I like checking back here.
 

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