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10th Anniversary Giveaway Final

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10th Anniversary Giveaway Final - Sun Dec 11, 2011, 05:35 PM
(#1)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
One villian had been very aggressive, cbet every time, the second villian had been playing much tighter and showing quality hands. I figured the tight villian could be on either a set or possibly a made straight, the looser one probably Ax that caught a piece of the flop.

 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 05:53 PM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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In this spot, it is possible you are beat by the guy moving all in (assuming he is the tight one). But with the raise over your donk lead (NOT saying you are a donk, but donk bet = one made after flatting a raise oop, then taking the betting lead), means he might be willing to call if you flat the all in.

If he is willing to call, then you can set up a side pot on the turn, and possibly get a favorable spot to double thru the overly aggro loose player. Even if you do not get the side pot you want, it figures that the all in will have JJ/TT/99 here often enough that you may be ahead of just.

So I would favor FLATTING here, and leading the turn with the intent to jam over any raise by the big stack.

If you had TT or maybe even JJ, this might be a decent spot to release while you can, but QQ is ahead of enough of what the tight short stack might jam over the aggro player but NOT jam pre flop, that you should be going I think.

So what happened?
 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 07:43 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
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I'd have seriously considered re-raising to 2400 pre. If you did, it may get some of the marginal hands to drop.

When the flop gets 678, I'd be less worried about 9 10 suited if I raised pre.

The way it played out, I agree with JD that I'd flat their bet on the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. They could easily have a straight draw or a flush draw, instead of a set and since they didn't re-raise pre... I wouldn't expect them to show up with AA or KK here that often. By flatting them, you can get the side pot on the turn (or if the other shoves over to try and isolate). While losing the main pot wouldn't be good... it's the side pot that could KO you from the tourney, so I'm more worried about that opp.
Unless the turn is the 5, 9 or 10 of diamonds, I'm leading out on the turn.
 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 07:57 PM
(#4)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Really confused by your play here. The biggest thing that gets me is the donk bet. Why? If the villain c-bets every time, why give him the opportunity to fold his air (33, AK, etc.)? The other thing that makes the donk bet icky is that it gives away your relative position. Had you checked and the PFR c-bet like expected, you would have seen whether or not the tight villain intended to jam before you had to commit a single chip to the pot. You robbed yourself of the opportunity to gain crucial info, and you really need that info here, because you should probably fold the queens if the tight villain wants to shove. This is a horrible board for you.

I actually think that was your second mistake in the hand, though. I would have rejammed the queens preflop. You have ~23bb, and with a bet and a call in front of you, this is basically the perfect stack size to get the chips in the middle preflop.

I'd like to know what your reasoning was behind the donk bet. If you were bluffing, I imagine you folded when action came back to you. It looks as though you might have been inducing a shove though...?
 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 08:00 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Had you checked and the PFR c-bet like expected, you would have seen whether or not the tight villain intended to jam before you had to commit a single chip to the pot. You robbed yourself of the opportunity to gain crucial info, and you really need that info here, because you should probably fold the queens if the tight villain wants to shove. This is a horrible board for you.
Great point Panicky
 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 08:18 PM
(#6)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
Great see u back PanickyPoker, i find ur middle ground, as we know poker isn't black or white, very good reference point, in learning , and as we all learning, i like your approach on teaching Thank you
(balanced, or is that which way I'm looking at it?) lol
ALL THEE BESTeveryone
 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 08:33 PM
(#7)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Thanks HighTimes. Glad to be back.
 
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Sun Dec 11, 2011, 08:56 PM
(#8)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
Thanks for the excellent analysis, it really helps. Panicky, I was trying to induce the raise from the lag, but it completely threw me when the tag shoved. As I said I figured he was on trips, the complete hand follows. I did think about reshoving and I'm pretty sure the lag would have called., but the implications of a side pot didn't occur to me. Big mistake as I had the lag crushed just like I thought.

 

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