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absolutely fuming again a joke

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absolutely fuming again a joke - Tue Dec 13, 2011, 05:26 PM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #72116608931: Tournament #551010552, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2011/12/13 17:18:02 ET
Table '551010552 103' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: iliagaBG (21951 in chips)
Seat 2: PRO}{vE$$or (52066 in chips)
Seat 3: Dolcemoney (30007 in chips)
Seat 4: holdemace486 (7035 in chips)
Seat 5: coppacat (38149 in chips)
Seat 6: SrM0R0 (40229 in chips)
iliagaBG: posts the ante 50
PRO}{vE$$or: posts the ante 50
Dolcemoney: posts the ante 50
holdemace486: posts the ante 50
coppacat: posts the ante 50
SrM0R0: posts the ante 50
SrM0R0: posts small blind 300
iliagaBG: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to holdemace486 [Kd Ks]
PRO}{vE$$or: folds
Dolcemoney: folds
holdemace486: raises 600 to 1200
coppacat: calls 1200
SrM0R0: folds
iliagaBG: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ad 8s Kc]
holdemace486: checks
coppacat: bets 1800
holdemace486: raises 3985 to 5785 and is all-in
coppacat: calls 3985
*** TURN *** [Ad 8s Kc] [As]
*** RIVER *** [Ad 8s Kc As] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
holdemace486: shows [Kd Ks] (a full house, Kings full of Aces)
coppacat: shows [Ac 8h] (a full house, Aces full of Eights)
coppacat collected 15170 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15170 | Rake 0
Board [Ad 8s Kc As 4h]
Seat 1: iliagaBG (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: PRO}{vE$$or folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Dolcemoney folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: holdemace486 showed [Kd Ks] and lost with a full house, Kings full of Aces
Seat 5: coppacat (button) showed [Ac 8h] and won (15170) with a full house, Aces full of Eights
Seat 6: SrM0R0 (small blind) folded before Flop

28 ppl of the money and again grrrr its a joke for reel this site is,all ready folded kk twicw,qq twice,jj to survive was playing reel weelll yet again and the only way it can get rid of me is like this allways, wat a joke.
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 05:38 PM
(#2)
dertymcgerty's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 95
 
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and again - Tue Dec 13, 2011, 05:55 PM
(#3)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #72118554762: Tournament #483477931, $0.23+$0.02 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2011/12/13 17:51:04 ET
Table '483477931 5' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: majazmaja (1610 in chips)
Seat 2: misi7107 (1810 in chips)
Seat 4: ugly harry (4250 in chips)
Seat 5: holdemace486 (1495 in chips)
Seat 6: NervyMan (1730 in chips)
Seat 7: bb&PK71 (1290 in chips)
Seat 8: SD_PocT (1660 in chips)
Seat 9: EMABARAO (2735 in chips)
ugly harry: posts small blind 15
holdemace486: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to holdemace486 [Qs Qd]
NervyMan: raises 30 to 60
bb&PK71: folds
SD_PocT: folds
EMABARAO: raises 165 to 225
majazmaja: folds
misi7107: calls 225
ugly harry: folds
holdemace486: calls 195
NervyMan: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c 6h 2d]
holdemace486: checks
EMABARAO: bets 2510 and is all-in
misi7107: folds
holdemace486: calls 1270 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1240) returned to EMABARAO
*** TURN *** [8c 6h 2d] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [8c 6h 2d Kh] [3h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
holdemace486: shows [Qs Qd] (a pair of Queens)
EMABARAO: shows [Ac Ks] (a pair of Kings)
EMABARAO collected 3290 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3290 | Rake 0
Board [8c 6h 2d Kh 3h]
Seat 1: majazmaja folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: misi7107 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: ugly harry (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: holdemace486 (big blind) showed [Qs Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 6: NervyMan folded before Flop
Seat 7: bb&PK71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: SD_PocT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: EMABARAO showed [Ac Ks] and won (3290) with a pair of Kings
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 05:59 PM
(#4)
dertymcgerty's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 95
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:03 PM
(#5)
dertymcgerty's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 95
I could save you a lot of un needed stress and anguish, by just transferring all of the money in your account to mine
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:05 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
The KK hand.

holdem...

You can gripe about the beat here until Hell freezes over but you set this turn of events in motion by min-raising here.

Look the antes are out,blinds are 300/600 and you're sitting on 7035 chips. By whichever measuring stick you prefer to use you're sitting on a push/fold stack---you're slightly less than 12BB or you're slightly less than M6 (personally I prefer to use M after the antes come out,but it's really the same story either way,short is short...). ANY hand that you're entering the pot with,be it to open or come behind,has to be a ship.

PERIOD.

You simply do not have a stack that is sufficient for any kind of post flop play. I don't care if it's KK,AA,22,J10s or whatever hand you're electing to play here it's very simple---ship or fold. No in between,no half measures.

If you ship here would the A8o hand still call? Meh,maybe. He has you easily covered and has an Ace and this is a micro tourney after all. But your min-raise guaranteed his call. As badly as he has you covered plus the fact that he's on the button---I'm in his position I'm calling a min-raise with A8o here all day long. I would even be tempted to raise you all-in here if it's me. Once he flops 2 pair here he is NEVER folding. Quite frankly he would be a chump to fold here.

Also if the reason for the min-raise was to try to extract value with your KK here by inducing calls with weaker hands then you simply have to understand that you're inviting a wide range of hands to come along here as short as you are in relation to the other stacks. Learning how to take account of effective stack sizes is something you may want to look into.

Look,if you had say 77 here would you be playing a min-raise to open or a ship? If you would do one thing with hand X to open here and a different thing with hand Y to open then that is a leak and something you need to stop. Immediately. It's a leak because it's noticeable to anyone that is paying attention and if they are they're going to put notes on you about that and exploit you down the line with it.

Ship or fold with this stack holdem.
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:16 PM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #72118554762: Tournament #483477931, $0.23+$0.02 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2011/12/13 17:51:04 ET
Table '483477931 5' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: majazmaja (1610 in chips)
Seat 2: misi7107 (1810 in chips)
Seat 4: ugly harry (4250 in chips)
Seat 5: holdemace486 (1495 in chips)
Seat 6: NervyMan (1730 in chips)
Seat 7: bb&PK71 (1290 in chips)
Seat 8: SD_PocT (1660 in chips)
Seat 9: EMABARAO (2735 in chips)
ugly harry: posts small blind 15
holdemace486: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to holdemace486 [Qs Qd]
NervyMan: raises 30 to 60
bb&PK71: folds
SD_PocT: folds
EMABARAO: raises 165 to 225
majazmaja: folds
misi7107: calls 225
ugly harry: folds
holdemace486: calls 195
NervyMan: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c 6h 2d]
holdemace486: checks
EMABARAO: bets 2510 and is all-in
misi7107: folds
holdemace486: calls 1270 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1240) returned to EMABARAO
*** TURN *** [8c 6h 2d] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [8c 6h 2d Kh] [3h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
holdemace486: shows [Qs Qd] (a pair of Queens)
EMABARAO: shows [Ac Ks] (a pair of Kings)
EMABARAO collected 3290 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3290 | Rake 0
Board [8c 6h 2d Kh 3h]
Seat 1: majazmaja folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: misi7107 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: ugly harry (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: holdemace486 (big blind) showed [Qs Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 6: NervyMan folded before Flop
Seat 7: bb&PK71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: SD_PocT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: EMABARAO showed [Ac Ks] and won (3290) with a pair of Kings

This is super standard in these. Players will panic donk shove hands like AK,AQ,AJ and even KQ all the time after they blank if 3 under cards flop. You got your money in good but understand that the villain does have 2 over cards here and 2 streets to hit one of them with so it's going to happen roughly 1 in 4 times.

Also understand that though it wasn't the case here,players in these games WILL punt all value and donk shove here if they flopped a set. So your call with the QQ here could have easily been against 88,66 or 22 for a set. Seen it more times than I can count.

Note the player here will ship air on a dry board after blanking with a Broadway hand that misses and better luck next time.
 
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Its a hat trick - Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:21 PM
(#8)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #72119840439: Tournament #483491651, $0.45+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2011/12/13 18:15:40 ET
Table '483491651 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: huirach (2547 in chips)
Seat 2: litris time (3424 in chips)
Seat 3: bobs39 (1390 in chips)
Seat 4: AizhanMash (1983 in chips)
Seat 5: z1r2c3 (372 in chips)
Seat 6: Berofh (2160 in chips)
Seat 7: 0-ErMaK-0 (2700 in chips)
Seat 8: holdemace486 (1405 in chips)
Seat 9: abaleleh (1599 in chips)
Berofh: posts small blind 50
0-ErMaK-0: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to holdemace486 [Kd Ac]
holdemace486: raises 250 to 350
abaleleh: folds
huirach: folds
litris time: folds
bobs39: folds
AizhanMash: folds
z1r2c3: raises 22 to 372 and is all-in
Berofh: folds
0-ErMaK-0: calls 272
holdemace486: calls 22
*** FLOP *** [Ks Jd 4c]
0-ErMaK-0: bets 100
holdemace486: calls 100
*** TURN *** [Ks Jd 4c] [3c]
0-ErMaK-0: bets 100
holdemace486: raises 200 to 300
0-ErMaK-0: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [Ks Jd 4c 3c] [4d]
0-ErMaK-0: bets 700
holdemace486: calls 633 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (67) returned to 0-ErMaK-0
*** SHOW DOWN ***
0-ErMaK-0: shows [5d 4s] (three of a kind, Fours)
holdemace486: shows [Kd Ac] (two pair, Kings and Fours)
0-ErMaK-0 collected 2066 from side pot
z1r2c3: shows [9h 9c] (two pair, Nines and Fours)
0-ErMaK-0 collected 1166 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3232 Main pot 1166. Side pot 2066. | Rake 0
Board [Ks Jd 4c 3c 4d]
Seat 1: huirach folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: litris time folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: bobs39 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: AizhanMash folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: z1r2c3 (button) showed [9h 9c] and lost with two pair, Nines and Fours
Seat 6: Berofh (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: 0-ErMaK-0 (big blind) showed [5d 4s] and won (3232) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 8: holdemace486 showed [Kd Ac] and lost with two pair, Kings and Fours
Seat 9: abaleleh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:39 PM
(#9)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I agree it's just one joke after another - I of course refer to any player constantly posting their bad beats.

Holdemace is swiftly becoming the biggest joke on this site

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:32 PM
(#10)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
correct way to play at least shove on flop dont check
you must giv e nbad guy room to fold
otherwise hwe has no fold equity
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:33 PM
(#11)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
who cares who wins who loses at least play it right
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:36 PM
(#12)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
ok looked again it was doomed booze clouds the vision
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:37 PM
(#13)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
unless the RNG shuffles as you mnake your decision
 
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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:59 PM
(#14)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #72119840439: Tournament #483491651, $0.45+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2011/12/13 18:15:40 ET
Table '483491651 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: huirach (2547 in chips)
Seat 2: litris time (3424 in chips)
Seat 3: bobs39 (1390 in chips)
Seat 4: AizhanMash (1983 in chips)
Seat 5: z1r2c3 (372 in chips)
Seat 6: Berofh (2160 in chips)
Seat 7: 0-ErMaK-0 (2700 in chips)
Seat 8: holdemace486 (1405 in chips)
Seat 9: abaleleh (1599 in chips)
Berofh: posts small blind 50
0-ErMaK-0: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to holdemace486 [Kd Ac]
holdemace486: raises 250 to 350
abaleleh: folds
huirach: folds
litris time: folds
bobs39: folds
AizhanMash: folds
z1r2c3: raises 22 to 372 and is all-in
Berofh: folds
0-ErMaK-0: calls 272
holdemace486: calls 22
*** FLOP *** [Ks Jd 4c]
0-ErMaK-0: bets 100
holdemace486: calls 100
*** TURN *** [Ks Jd 4c] [3c]
0-ErMaK-0: bets 100
holdemace486: raises 200 to 300
0-ErMaK-0: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [Ks Jd 4c 3c] [4d]
0-ErMaK-0: bets 700
holdemace486: calls 633 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (67) returned to 0-ErMaK-0
*** SHOW DOWN ***
0-ErMaK-0: shows [5d 4s] (three of a kind, Fours)
holdemace486: shows [Kd Ac] (two pair, Kings and Fours)
0-ErMaK-0 collected 2066 from side pot
z1r2c3: shows [9h 9c] (two pair, Nines and Fours)
0-ErMaK-0 collected 1166 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3232 Main pot 1166. Side pot 2066. | Rake 0
Board [Ks Jd 4c 3c 4d]
Seat 1: huirach folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: litris time folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: bobs39 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: AizhanMash folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: z1r2c3 (button) showed [9h 9c] and lost with two pair, Nines and Fours
Seat 6: Berofh (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: 0-ErMaK-0 (big blind) showed [5d 4s] and won (3232) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 8: holdemace486 showed [Kd Ac] and lost with two pair, Kings and Fours
Seat 9: abaleleh folded before Flop (didn't bet)

holdem...

You can again blame the RNG all you want but it doesn't change the fact that you played this hand badly.

Look at what you did here...

1. I'll let the pre-flop raise slide a little here,but you really should be shipping this hand here.

2. The flat call on the flop is terrible. You flopped top top on a dry board against a player who has shown weakness TWICE now in this hand and you flat? Bad poker leads to bad results.

0-ErMak-0 made TWO weak plays already in this hand--the call pre-flop and now a timid,weak lead out bet of 100 into a pot of almost 1200. You need to tap that azz RIGHT NOW and get your chips in the middle. But instead you answer weakness with weakness.

3. Again he makes a weak play and again you let him off the hook by not putting him to a hard decision. Why would you make the raise that you do here and leave 633 chips behind? That's nonsensical.

4. He may have well have that 4 in his hand turned face up when he makes this bet. An you FINALLY decide to get your chips in the middle---the one time that you're behind in the hand.

Now the player with the 9's is always going to get his piece of this pot (and no matter how the hand plays out when he chose to get his chips in he was AHEAD of you--99>AK--so it's never a bad beat at that point) but the way you played this against 0-ErMak-0,which was in your control,was just plain bad.


There are a lot of learning tools in this Forum that can help your game if you make use of them. But if you mainly see the function of this venue as being a place for you to come vent when you get beat then you're punting the value of the PSO.

Ed may be a little blunt in his post but I gotta say that he's on the right track because you need to hear this...

IF you continue to focus on the beats then you are putting your entire post session/game analysis into the one area that you have ZERO control over,that being how the cards fall.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Tue Dec 13, 2011 at 11:15 PM..
 
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thx moxi and go away rude people - Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:04 AM
(#15)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thx moxi for your evaluation most appreciated and notes taken and as for the rude people wat a.pr.....,this says bad beats section post your bad beats derrrrr,i aint no joke u cheeky well wont say it,im on poker school trying to improve and then well,the joke is the people who say things like that on a help forum,and i will post as many bad beats as i feel nescerrary to help my game,
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:39 AM
(#16)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
only real mistake I see is checking QQ that invites AK to shove for a steal

on the other hand against A8
as bad as players play preflop you may never have gotten him to fold A8 pre flop

still a bet of 3600 would have been better
then A8 would have folded pre flop maybe

similarities both hand ?

weak bets which invited action when you would rather reduce field
better to win a little than lose a lot

so either go micro small to reduce losses (PSO Style)
or bet correctly to reduce field

odds way in your favor with KK + QQ
reducing field improves odds even better
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:06 AM
(#17)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
BronzeStar
I think holdem has a right to post as many bad beats as he wants and trying to say this is not a learning tool is just silly, holdem played the hand wrong and invited a bad beat into the hand, how is this not learning him something, yes his topics can be abit on the gloomy side but is that not the reason he,s here?
He,s getting into some bad situations that are frustrating him, as can plainly be noted, and your post ED name calling? good use of the forum ED. I never took you for this sort of person.
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 08:35 AM
(#18)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
yeah Ed was a bit out of line
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:14 PM
(#19)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPest72 View Post
I think holdem has a right to post as many bad beats as he wants and trying to say this is not a learning tool is just silly, holdem played the hand wrong and invited a bad beat into the hand, how is this not learning him something, yes his topics can be abit on the gloomy side but is that not the reason he,s here?
He,s getting into some bad situations that are frustrating him, as can plainly be noted, and your post ED name calling? good use of the forum ED. I never took you for this sort of person.

But that IS the point I was making here pest---if holdem continues to fixate solely and/or primarily on the beats and not the mistakes that he made in some of these hands himself then he ISN'T going to learn as quickly and completely as he needs to,simply because he would be continuing to place the onus on the one thing that he has absolutely ZERO control over.

That being how the cards fall.

That being said of course the Bad Beat section can be and IS a learning tool. Not sure where you see anyone actually challenging that concept.
 

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