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Picking on people

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Picking on people - Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:42 AM
(#1)
DoomedXXX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 133
BronzeStar
With my previous hands posted, I established an image of "risky trapper"
Now, something different: choosing one oponent at table, and abusing him ... obviously, good luck is required
Action takes place around bubble 270 players left, 250 win ticket ...

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

He played his hands fast, agressive, and after this hand, I've decided to get creative and abuse him in a very next hand, just for a change

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Last edited by DoomedXXX; Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 12:23 PM.. Reason: typo
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 01:12 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
from your first couple hands from last night, I would not label you as a 'risky trapper', if I were making notes on you, I'd have noted you as 'plays too passivley and misses value'.

In the first hand here, this is a satellite, so the one and only thing that matters is to get a ticket. Since you said there were 20 left until you get a ticket, how many people had lower stacks than you? That's the only thing you need to be looking at.
If there were 20-25 with lower chip stacks than you.... INSTANT FOLD anything but an ultra-premium hand (QQ+).
If there are 40+ with lower stacks than me..... INSTANT FOLD EVERYTHING, even AA. You hve absolutely nothing to gain by playing any hand and everything to lose by playing one.

Don't know exactly where you're at overall, but there are 3 lower stacks just at your table. If there are other tables with similar chip amounts, then there are probably over 40 lower than you, so you should be folding to the bubble to get your ticket.

Even if you're close to having enough chips to get in, this spot is way too risky to be playing preflop. 78 off from mid position should be an easy fold here. Save the chips and get ITM and get the ticket. Don't risk giving any of them away with a marginal at best hand, if you don't have to.
You got extremely lucky on the flop, BUT, at least you didn't shove here, as there are hands that can outdraw you and get a higher straight, or if someone has a set, they can draw a full house. Someone that raises this flop will normally have a set or possibly 2 pair or A9s.
The turn is a HUGE scare card. Any set or 2 pair that had a 6 now crushes your straight. Shoving here, while you got extremely lucky, will normally only be called by a full house. You don't want to take a chance and lose out and miss the ticket by shoving with what may not be the best hand.
You got extremely lucky here and should have mucked preflop.

In the 2nd hand, if you had enough chips to get the ticket before or were on the bubble before.... you're IN now. DO NOT PLAY ANOTHER HAND. Take the ticket and run!
The only thing that can come from you playing another hand is to possibly lose your ticket. Hit the 'sit out' button and take your ticket.
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 01:56 PM
(#3)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
+1

Very good advice - I recently lost a ticket by playing an unnecessary hand, you can bet I'm sitting out now whenever I'm in position for a ticket.

 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 02:29 PM
(#4)
DoomedXXX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 133
BronzeStar
Advice is good and balanced, but I posted this, if someone can see an opportunity behind the card values.
1st hand is an easy fold for me, if anyone after me 3bets.
With my stack here, I'm around 190th place, which is good enough just to sit out (or, to join others in limpfest)
Percepting other player and his style, this guy would NEVER bet possible full house on turn that way, I wasn't scared there, even the board became more tricky.
These two hands are an example of playing against common sense, I know that, but intuition and listening my own inner voice is crucial.
Second hands is his big mistake, calling 5bet with J9, after that flop, I'm not going anywhere.
Sometimes, we must gamble ...
Wish me luck, I'll use my ticket now
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 03:10 PM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomedXXX View Post
Wish me luck, I'll use my ticket now
Zing!
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 03:56 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
from your first couple hands from last night, I would not label you as a 'risky trapper', if I were making notes on you, I'd have noted you as 'plays too passivley and misses value'.

In the first hand here, this is a satellite, so the one and only thing that matters is to get a ticket. Since you said there were 20 left until you get a ticket, how many people had lower stacks than you? That's the only thing you need to be looking at.
If there were 20-25 with lower chip stacks than you.... INSTANT FOLD anything but an ultra-premium hand (QQ+).
If there are 40+ with lower stacks than me..... INSTANT FOLD EVERYTHING, even AA. You hve absolutely nothing to gain by playing any hand and everything to lose by playing one.

Don't know exactly where you're at overall, but there are 3 lower stacks just at your table. If there are other tables with similar chip amounts, then there are probably over 40 lower than you, so you should be folding to the bubble to get your ticket.

Even if you're close to having enough chips to get in, this spot is way too risky to be playing preflop. 78 off from mid position should be an easy fold here. Save the chips and get ITM and get the ticket. Don't risk giving any of them away with a marginal at best hand, if you don't have to.
You got extremely lucky on the flop, BUT, at least you didn't shove here, as there are hands that can outdraw you and get a higher straight, or if someone has a set, they can draw a full house. Someone that raises this flop will normally have a set or possibly 2 pair or A9s.
The turn is a HUGE scare card. Any set or 2 pair that had a 6 now crushes your straight. Shoving here, while you got extremely lucky, will normally only be called by a full house. You don't want to take a chance and lose out and miss the ticket by shoving with what may not be the best hand.
You got extremely lucky here and should have mucked preflop.

In the 2nd hand, if you had enough chips to get the ticket before or were on the bubble before.... you're IN now. DO NOT PLAY ANOTHER HAND. Take the ticket and run!
The only thing that can come from you playing another hand is to possibly lose your ticket. Hit the 'sit out' button and take your ticket.
+INFINITY

Doomed are there any different tickets being handed out for a better finish,or do all 250 players that qualify get the same ticket?

If the answer is the latter (which I'm pretty much 100% sure that it is...) then while I can see playing the first hand if you're stack has you well on the wrong side of the bubble,playing the second hand,no matter what your cards are,is just plain idiotic. And then you put all your chips in the middle???!!! For what?

Let me be perfectly blunt here---even if you're "right" on your read,you're WRONG. Because you are gaining absolutely NOTHING by playing this hand. Zero,nada,zip. You simply CANNOT make a more -EV play than you did here.

I'm sorry to come down on you this hard,but then again maybe I'm not. Because plenty of less experienced players come into this section of the forum and these are players for whom satellite tickets can have great value and for them to see this and think it's something to be done...well, wow is all I can say.

Like I responded in another thread here by D H Q about the objective realities of 50/50 tournaments and why a play he made there was correct for that structure but would be not so good for other structures knowing what your goals should be within the game that you are playing is just as,if not MORE important,than the decisions you make with your cards. The ONLY goal in this satellite was to get a ticket and you put that at risk for absolutely no gain if you win the hand.

There really isn't anything else that needs to be analyzed here in my opinion.
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:07 PM
(#7)
DoomedXXX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 133
BronzeStar
Glory and crazy image are nothing ???
It's everything in poker
Be honest, would you call my 5bet with J9, at that spot ?
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:10 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomedXXX View Post
Advice is good and balanced, but I posted this, if someone can see an opportunity behind the card values.
1st hand is an easy fold for me, if anyone after me 3bets.
With my stack here, I'm around 190th place, which is good enough just to sit out (or, to join others in limpfest)
Percepting other player and his style, this guy would NEVER bet possible full house on turn that way, I wasn't scared there, even the board became more tricky.
These two hands are an example of playing against common sense, I know that, but intuition and listening my own inner voice is crucial.
Second hands is his big mistake, calling 5bet with J9, after that flop, I'm not going anywhere.
Sometimes, we must gamble ...
Wish me luck, I'll use my ticket now
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Zing!

Panicky...what "zing"?

"Zing" would have been a non-heart J or 9 falling here.Or Hell how about just 2 bricks on the turn and river?

I don't get you here with this response. Quoting just that part of his response and then commenting with "zing" seems to be like you're saying he was justified in making this play because at the end of the day he got his ticket,so there.

If that is the case could you possibly take a MORE results oriented attitude...well,...EVER?

He put his stack in for NO REASON whatsoever within the structure of the game he was playing. There is nothing to be gained by this move. Ever. And EVERYTHING to lose. No matter how this plays out it is an absolutely horrendous decision. Period.

That rates a "zing"?

More like a "DOH" where I come from.
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:14 PM
(#9)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
I recently lost a ticket by playing an unnecessary hand, you can bet I'm sitting out now whenever I'm in position for a ticket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomedXXX View Post
Wish me luck, I'll use my ticket now
Burn!

I don't always actually post my analysis. You guys got this one.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 04:21 PM..
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:25 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomedXXX View Post
Glory and crazy image are nothing ???
It's everything in poker
Be honest, would you call my 5bet with J9, at that spot ?

Doomed you don't get it. I don't care if only the river card is left to come here and there is only one card left in the deck that can beat you and both hands are turned face up...

...within the structure of this tournament and the lone goal there within,that being to win a ticket, it's a chump play the hand,much less put your stack in the middle.

And no I most definitely would NOT be making that call here. Because MY azz would be folding every stinking hand until the bubble burst and my ticket is secure.

Glory and crazy image? Well if you think that you can use the image thing against some of these players down the line then good luck with that. As to the glory thing I guess we see "glory" in a different vein. I don't consider punting my stack when the single goal of what I entered a tournament for in the first place is right in front me to be obtained as being a play that covers me in "glory". Quite another list of adjectives come to mind actually.

And what "glory" are you looking for in a satellite to begin with? You get the ticket. That is all. Biggest stack and the last guy to turtle over the line are getting the same "glory" here. In my recollection the single biggest waste of time I ever engaged in here on Stars was wasting 3 hours after the bubble burst and we all had our tickets in a Astronomer Freeroll once (was 2-7 NL Single Draw,my "go-to" game for a ticket) to try and take it down. Which I did.

Felt great for about 10 seconds and then it sunk in what a chump I was to continue playing 3+ hours longer than all the peeps who got their tickets and sat out to win the SAME EXACT PRIZE.

That's about as -EV as it gets in my book.
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:33 PM
(#11)
DoomedXXX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 133
BronzeStar
I understand your point, you're result oriented, yes, I could sit out for the rest of the tournament, but wining tickets isn't everything, at the end of a day. if fun dissappears in the process ...
1st hand matters, and my style is tricky, I allow sometimes free turn cards, due to my tight table image ... often if I bet, it's just a foldfest ...
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:43 PM
(#12)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomedXXX View Post
I understand your point, you're result oriented, yes, I could sit out for the rest of the tournament, but wining tickets isn't everything, at the end of a day. if fun dissappears in the process ...
1st hand matters, and my style is tricky, I allow sometimes free turn cards, due to my tight table image ... often if I bet, it's just a foldfest ...

Well there's results oriented and there's results oriented. To me that term means getting overly concerned about the outcome of an individual hand instead of focusing on making the best possible play. But whatever congrats on the ticket,hope you run deep.

As to the "fun disappearing"...dude you get that I'm American right? That's all the Hell that there is for me on this site right now. Fun. As in play money games only. And I'm still here. Hope that clears that up.
 
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Wed Dec 14, 2011, 04:50 PM
(#13)
DoomedXXX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 133
BronzeStar
And how can I help ? Things that go beyond poker tables, we can't influence ...
I can't say anything smart to improve your situation ...
Thanks, I finished the tournament in 443rd place (675 places paid).
4554 entrants, I ussualy aim to finish in a upper 10% field
 

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