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analise grrrr

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analise grrrr - Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:10 AM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #72190638084: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/12/15 3:57:17 ET
Table 'Stentor' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Noton*S ($0.48 in chips)
Seat 2: nefedovaolya ($1.12 in chips)
Seat 3: Chinga4kuk ($3.08 in chips)
Seat 5: holdemace486 ($0.89 in chips)
Seat 6: BuLiUkFF ($2 in chips)
Noton*S: posts small blind $0.01
nefedovaolya: posts big blind $0.02
yozhykus: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to holdemace486 [Qc Qh]
Chinga4kuk: raises $0.04 to $0.06
holdemace486: raises $0.06 to $0.12
BuLiUkFF: folds
Noton*S: folds
nefedovaolya: folds
Chinga4kuk: raises $0.06 to $0.18
holdemace486: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [7d 4c Td]
Chinga4kuk: bets $0.22
holdemace486: raises $0.22 to $0.44
Chinga4kuk: raises $0.22 to $0.66
holdemace486 said, "damn u got kk or aa"
holdemace486 said, "grrrr"
holdemace486: raises $0.05 to $0.71 and is all-in
Chinga4kuk: calls $0.05
*** TURN *** [7d 4c Td] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [7d 4c Td 7s] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Chinga4kuk: shows [Jd Jh] (a full house, Jacks full of Sevens)
holdemace486: shows [Qc Qh]
Chinga4kuk collected $1.72 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.81 | Rake $0.09
Board [7d 4c Td 7s Jc]
Seat 1: Noton*S (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: nefedovaolya (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Chinga4kuk showed [Jd Jh] and won ($1.72) with a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
Seat 5: holdemace486 mucked [Qc Qh]
Seat 6: BuLiUkFF (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

the guy 3 bets to 6c so i reraise to 12c to check how i stand,the guy raises then to 18c so i call thinkng over cards at least,flop comes low i m confident im gd so check trap and again wen im well in front get blitz
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:45 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,027
(Community Coordinator)
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner


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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 05:12 AM
(#3)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,027
(Community Coordinator)
Hi Holdemace,

There are two stages to this. One is good and the other is very bad.

1. The good stage - Preflop.

A re-raise with your premier holding to isolate the original raiser pre-flop is a very effective play. The fact that he 4 bet you also indicates that he too has a premier starting hand.

Based on this we assume the information that we are now playing a heads-up situation against an opponent who has a good hand and is not afraid of getting the chips in.

2. The bad stage - Postflop

In your post you stated ',flop comes low i m confident im gd' - This flop is NOT good for you. It has an obvious flush draw and straight draw possibility. (If the villain was playing 89s, although I wouldn't be too concerned about this, it still is a possibility.)

All we have is a pair. This is where having a read on your opponent comes into place.

We already ready know that the villain is never going to fold here by the way he's throwing chips into the pot. He has you well covered stack size too. Either jam it in his face and take the race or fold it.

I've said it too you before, Large pocket pairs either win a small pot or lose a big one.

Just to let you know he only had an 18% chance of beating you preflop, a 14% chance post flop, and a 5% chance on the river.

Raiser


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Bracelet Winner



Last edited by royalraise85; Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:14 AM..
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:37 AM
(#4)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
lol, this should be interesting. I actually have sort of the opposite opinion about the hand. I think the preflop play was awkward and incorrect, while I think the post-flop play was awkward but along the right track. Here's why:

Preflop, you chose to make a small 3bet with QQ. It was exactly twice the previous bet. I can't remember the last time I saw someone do that who didn't show down QQ+ or AK. It's a massive tell. If you're going to 3bet, make it bigger.

Postflop, with an SPR of less than 2, getting all the chips in with an overpair is just fine. If the villain has a draw, good for them. They'll usually be behind, so going all-in is still fine. I just think that minraising back-and-forth is a weird way to do it.

Appreciate the replayer btw, royal.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 06:39 AM..
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 07:00 AM
(#5)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
I sort of go with panicky pre-flop here,it's kind of messy with QQ and your stack here. With the stack advantage he has on the table he could be trying to play AA/KK a little trappy,but with QQ you have to come over top harder than you did here. You HAVE to. If not you're letting too many Ax and broadway hands that have a K in them stay around for too little an investment by the villain.

Post flop I'm really not sweating the straight thought at all royal. If he played something that can connect the 10 or the 4 with the 7 then bless his pointy little head. As to the diamond draw that's all the more reason to get it in here---you're ahead of draws and you want them to pay max value to see them. Over the long haul that's winning poker.

In all honesty if you were to show me this hand and hide the result from me the way the villain played it the hand I would most worry about (besides AA/KK that is...) is that he has 1010 and hit his set and is trying to value bet you into punting your stack. Hell at 2NL seeing players get that attached to 77 and 44 pre-flop isn't uncommon either.

Both of you played this kind of spewy to be honest with you,just an UL river for you.
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 07:58 AM
(#6)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
We have 90 bb's in $.01/$.02 and my question is what did you bring to the table and what is your table image! Before you laugh about this, you must understand that most people never account for this! This is important because if you came in with $2 and are down to $.89 how did you get there? This is only $.01/$.02 but how many times have you guys watched Ahar or myself during live training and make te comment about a player! Anyway.....you raised and he re raised so you have to ask yourself does he have AA or KK? You clearly didn't think so becasue you told us you felt it was overs! If our answer is no we jam it in high 5 the screen and say eat it!

Gidee Up!

Last edited by 19honu62; Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 08:00 AM..
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 11:32 AM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Pre flop, I like your play except for the sizing of your 3Bet.

Your hand strength here is good enough to create a "big pot", one you'd be willing to stack off on, so making it 12c after the villain open raises to 6c is a bit too weak. Consider these factors:

1) Villain open raised, so he may call MORE
2) If his range is beneficial to your QQ (he does not habitually limp monster pp), then you want him calling more in case he folds on the flop, right?

If you raise it up to 18c to 24c here, you are instantly setting up the uber low stack to pot ratio that a hand which will tend to be a board over pair more often than not wants to make a flop shove easier for you.

If you are scared that a bet of this size will run off a weak opening opponent, ANY bet that is designed to put the pot around 20c to 24c on the flop with a villain call is going to give you a good SPR. So strictly speaking, your small raise is "ok" because if it gets called you are still creating an SPR under 4 for yourself if the villain calls. I'd jsut prefer the larger raise, because a lot of times the leaks in micro players' games are that they call too much, so why mot charge them, right?

When the villain comes over your 3bet, I do like your flat though.

COULD you have reasonably jammed here; sure.

Much like the AK hand you posted, you are probably racing if you do though, and if he is on AK he gets max chance to spike against you if you jam in now. Plus, this min raise/4bet line is rarely weak, so there is a real chance he does have AA/KK now. Flatting to decide on the flop (no A no K = go for it) is fine, as there will be an over card a reasonable amount of the time. In a cash game, you can flat this 4bet, then fold if a scary board appears, so no reason to MAKE him race if that is what he wants to do.

FLOP:

Villain leads out for 22c
You hold the hand you wanted, an over pair to the board.

This was the time to pull the trigger...afterall, this is what you;d EXPECT with QQ, a board over pair, right?

At this point, it is too late to worry about whether he has KK/AA or a set of Ts. Your fate was sealed by your pre flop actions (as it should be) if you flop an over pair to the board.

Since he indicated interest in this pot with his bet, you must read that interest as one that will call NOW, and get your chips in...not make a min raise. There are too many cards which would come that would either BEAT you, or make an opponent reluctant to call later, so you benefit in making sure he pays max price NOW if you are ahead, and if you are not...well, bad luck cooler hand.

Please note:

When villain puts you in after your min raise, see how CLOSE you are to making a "mistake fold" versus what turns out to be JJ?

THAT is what you are trying to avoid by setting up a beneficial SPR going to the flop.

When you set up that good SPR situation, there should be no reluctance to go ahead and go. Your min raise was enough to CREATE in-decision though when the villain raised over it.

That is what you are triyng to AVOID...

hope it helps.

-JDean
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 11:35 AM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I'd be playing this different preflop. When the first opp raises from 2 cents to 6 cents, I'm 3-betting to 18 cents. I agree with the others that small 3-bets are normally a tell at these tables.
When the opp 4-bets us... here's where the decision in the hand is. Does the opp have AA or KK?
If you don't put the opp on AA or KK, then I'm 5-bet shoving right here and here's why I'm not just calling their 4-bet. To 4-bet you here, if the opp doesn't have AA or KK, then they should have either AK or a smaller pkt pair than you. I do NOT want the opp seeing a flop that could possibly hit them here. If an A or K fall on the flop, you're not going to be very happy and they also could hit a set. You want the opp to have to risk the max without seeing that they could then be ahead, maximizing your fold equity.
On this flop, you got lucky with no A nor K, but there are hands that if the opp is playing suited connectors.. that you're behind in equity on the flop. You're actually an underdog to 89 dia.

If you're going to get it all in on the flop anyway, then I think you're better off making a 5-bet shove preflop. You're not going to win all of them, but as long as the opp doesn't have AA, KK, you're getting your money in ahead (without letting the opp possibly get more outs on you).
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:48 PM
(#9)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I am hoping he bought in for 80 cents

Preflop bet sizing is bad, way too passive, make it at least 24 to go: I would even be tempted to shove over the larger stack.

Definitely shove the flop, no messing about, and if you win the hand run from the table as fast as your little legs will carry you and move onto the next one. You just got unlucky with the river. It happens, just live with it and move on, plenty will come the other way around as well!

Cheers,

TC
 

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