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whats the right play?

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whats the right play? - Thu Dec 15, 2011, 05:41 AM
(#1)
deadeyz's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 114


Is this the right play or its way too risky considering that I do not have any solid reads/stats on the opponent. At the same time if he had A,Q beat he would have re-raise pre-flop (with A,K or any big pocket pairs). What kind of hands he could be re-raising here after I c-bet half the pot and is 3bet shove the right play on this flop?

Is the bet size pre and on flop ok?

Last edited by deadeyz; Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:47 AM.. Reason: add. info
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:05 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,022
(Community Coordinator)
The big stack could possibly be trying to shove you off the pot here and as a result could be shoving light.

Your hand would be a 70% favourite against a tight opponent (of say a vpip of 10%).

You are going to be pot committed here if you call so shoving all-in is the right option in my opinion.

Raiser


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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:56 AM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
You have an SPR of 3 here. The value of your stack is only 3 times the pot. Relatively, that means the pot is pretty big. I think the hands that make the most sense for the villain to have are AK and TT, but I can think of a half dozen other reasons why someone might do this that aren't all that smart, but some people still do them.

I think that you can't afford to fold. Your hand is pretty solid, and while it should be behind your villain's value range, there's probably a good enough chance he doesn't understand the term 'value range' and he's trying to bluff you repping the ace or something weird like that. I think shoving is fine.
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 07:37 AM
(#4)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
A few questions............ are we ITM? What buy in or game is it? Did you hit the time button and got to poker pro labs and check his stats? Did you right click on his name to see if he is hidden from search or if he is playing 14 games? Why don't you have any reads on him is this literally the first hand you have seen at this table?
Ok not knowing any of this, We have 21 bb's in EP and are we ever betting here with no plan of action or are we just betting because we know we cant fold AQ EP pre?
I like your open bet but I'm confused about the flop play. If we are getting it all in then why bet half pot? The way you played it suggests you had some read on him and you didn't believe him so the Go and Go would have been better. This is where we are OOP and raise with the intent of jamming ANY flop!

Gidee Up!

Last edited by 19honu62; Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 07:44 AM..
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 11:18 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Preflop, what you did is fine. Std raise.

On the flop, if it were me, I'm shoving right here. If you shove and the opp folds, you gain about 1/3 of your stack. If the opp calls, then with an A high flop and holding AQ, it's not like you're letting go of it here if you make a smaller c-bet... so shove first and put the pressure on the opponent.

Reads on the opp would hellp to determine their hand, but anyone raising your flop bet should know that you're already committed to the pot..... which may or may not be the case. The hands that they would raise like that: 44, 10's, A 10, diamonds (especially any broadway or 23), A4, maybe even 2 broadway cards if only 1 is a diamond. Without a read on the opp, it's much tougher to tell what they would raise you with.

I think the best way to play this one is to std raise pre, then shove the flop with top pair.
 
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Fri Dec 16, 2011, 10:07 PM
(#6)
deadeyz's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
A few questions............ are we ITM? What buy in or game is it? Did you hit the time button and got to poker pro labs and check his stats? Did you right click on his name to see if he is hidden from search or if he is playing 14 games? Why don't you have any reads on him is this literally the first hand you have seen at this table?
Ok not knowing any of this, We have 21 bb's in EP and are we ever betting here with no plan of action or are we just betting because we know we cant fold AQ EP pre?
I like your open bet but I'm confused about the flop play. If we are getting it all in then why bet half pot? The way you played it suggests you had some read on him and you didn't believe him so the Go and Go would have been better. This is where we are OOP and raise with the intent of jamming ANY flop!

Gidee Up!
Thanks guys for your insights. I know I should have included more information but I've only started using the forum so I'll keep that in the mind to include as much information as possible.

It was $11 satellite to sunday million with top 27 get the ticket and 28 spot about $190. It was down to about 141 players left when this hand was played. I didn't had any read on the opp cos I was recently moved to this table and it was 5th or 6th hand.

Once I have c-bet 1/2 pot on the flop, when I get raised is it better to fold (since he was holding A,10 for 2pairs) cos we still have about 15 bb left and we have only invested about 1/4 stack in the pot. If we are going to raise 2.5x and then jam any flop with 21bb stack, would it not be better to jam pre-flop or with 21bb it too much of a risk? Can we fold A,Qo in early position with 21bb or would that be too tight?
 
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Fri Dec 16, 2011, 10:54 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadeyz View Post
If we are going to raise 2.5x and then jam any flop with 21bb stack, would it not be better to jam pre-flop or with 21bb it too much of a risk? Can we fold A,Qo in early position with 21bb or would that be too tight?
I try to start open jamming at about 15BB, maybe up to 20BB if... there are multiple people already in the hand. I think open-jamming it here is a bit too much and we'll lose some value over time by doing it (they'll fold some hands we could get at least some chips from).

Folding AQ here, especially on the bubble is going to be too tight. If you were right on the bubble an just had to fold your way to the ticket, then I'm absolutely folding it, but... if you may need some chips to get in, then I'm going to play it.

Honestly, this is about as good of a flop for AQ that you can get. Top pair.

If I totally missed the flop, then I would absolutely consider folding and trying to save the rest of my chips to shove the next good hand that I get.
 

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