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stupid move again by the big fish--deep big 11

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stupid move again by the big fish--deep big 11 - Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:24 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
is this acceptable even i have my reason to 4bet jam

table is aggro player is aggro

i definitely want to win this

i really really thought he would fold because he's been actively 3betting and i thought i will be running against small to mid prs but definitely not AK but it;s possible

to all the reason to my 4bet jam----Is it acceptable or I'm such a big fish please critiize my play

im so embarassed on how I bust out lot's of people railing me already

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
i thought he would fold he always do 3bet in the small blind,so him to that 4 times already and the other time he got shoved he folded

i thought im well ahead of if not im going to flip it with small to medium pair

damn it i fish it again.

i need to practice my hand reading

i'm so embarassed

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:41 PM
(#2)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
I watched the hand and play before it. You raised his SB three times in this position and each time he reraised and you folded. I think he guessed you were raising light and when he hit the AK did the same thing again!

Once a player sees your patterns of play he can exploit them with a premium holding. KQ off is never playable in this position considering the earlier plays, as you raised three times before and got reraised and then folded. I think you went all in out of frustration but these things last 8 or 9 hours so you have to adapt to that.

Nice run and I enjoyed railing you!

Cheers,

TC
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 07:04 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
well, this one falls into a section of a book that I just got done reading right before looking at this. A 3-bet from the SB has to be respected more than from the BB. The SB's 3-bet needs to make it thru 2 people, not just one.

When ranging the opponent, why would you think they would do this with a small pair, but not AK? AK, while not a made hand, is a hand with much better potential than a mid to low pair and is the case why it's ranked as a cat 1 hand, while pairs from JJ on down, are not.

This is the spot, after the 3-bet that you need to look at. You've got 2 options, either 4-bet shove, as you did, or to fold to the 3-bet. In this case, if it's me, I'm folding to their 3-bet and trying to find a better situation to get my chips into due to this..... the only hands that will call a 4-bet shove are ALL ahead of you. All small pairs are ahead of you, also any ace is ahead of you. That gives you 6 outs at best (if they don't have one of your cards dominated, then you've only got 3 outs).
The opp could be 3-betting light and fold part of the time, but if they have any type of hand at all (which could easily be the case since they're doing this from the SB and not the BB), then you're behind in the hand.

If the opp sensed that you would fold to a 3-bet (as TC says that you did prior in the tourney a few times), then with a category 1 hand, I'm making a 3-bet every time and just hoping that you raise... because then they know they'll be ahead of you... or fold, by which they get free chips with no risk.
Raise/folding too often is definitely something that a good player will pick up on and try to exploit in this exact manner.
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 08:07 PM
(#4)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
I watched the hand and play before it. You raised his SB three times in this position and each time he reraised and you folded. I think he guessed you were raising light and when he hit the AK did the same thing again!

Once a player sees your patterns of play he can exploit them with a premium holding. KQ off is never playable in this position considering the earlier plays, as you raised three times before and got reraised and then folded. I think you went all in out of frustration but these things last 8 or 9 hours so you have to adapt to that.

Nice run and I enjoyed railing you!

Cheers,

TC
after looking at the hand again, im so frustrated. I feel that im the big fish at the table.and no experience and again wasted my opportunity. yes maybe i went all in out of frustration hope hope that he folded,, your right that I should have folded KQ in early position because there is a great chance of i get 3-bet because of the aggressiveness of my table and all the players are good no one is giving up the blinds so easily.

I did not follow my own strategy.

i put on my strategy is to play tight then trap them because the first thing i notice about my table is the aggressiveness not one not two but almost all of them. but unfortunately I'm the one get trapped.

yes looking back again look back and look back, and hope never never to do this again but this is the second time that i jammed when the SB 3bet and everytime they are way ahead of me the other one is the rockets. why did I forgot about that.

this is a learning experience again and again. I've learned my lesson the hard way again as always.

but I'll take it. I really really need to swallow it hard.

yes this is frustrating I thought i played very very well until this one hand where i give away my chips again so easily. which is a no no no.

i didn't think hard again I'm in love my cards again and forgot to analyze my opp hands. the moment he 3bets i forgot to think hard i just though oh yeah here he goes again 3betting light im definitely ahead. but forgot the possibility of my tournament life if he have me dominated.

therefore, i will accept the fact that i played this hand poorly

i should have fold PRE because of my position and table's action lots of 3bets. if i called a 3bet i would be in bad shape.

lack of experience for me in this play. i get outplayed by a better player. so i will use this to become a better player and next time i will exploit the begginner.
 
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Thu Dec 15, 2011, 08:15 PM
(#5)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
well, this one falls into a section of a book that I just got done reading right before looking at this. A 3-bet from the SB has to be respected more than from the BB. The SB's 3-bet needs to make it thru 2 people, not just one.

When ranging the opponent, why would you think they would do this with a small pair, but not AK? AK, while not a made hand, is a hand with much better potential than a mid to low pair and is the case why it's ranked as a cat 1 hand, while pairs from JJ on down, are not.

This is the spot, after the 3-bet that you need to look at. You've got 2 options, either 4-bet shove, as you did, or to fold to the 3-bet. In this case, if it's me, I'm folding to their 3-bet and trying to find a better situation to get my chips into due to this..... the only hands that will call a 4-bet shove are ALL ahead of you. All small pairs are ahead of you, also any ace is ahead of you. That gives you 6 outs at best (if they don't have one of your cards dominated, then you've only got 3 outs).
The opp could be 3-betting light and fold part of the time, but if they have any type of hand at all (which could easily be the case since they're doing this from the SB and not the BB), then you're behind in the hand.

If the opp sensed that you would fold to a 3-bet (as TC says that you did prior in the tourney a few times), then with a category 1 hand, I'm making a 3-bet every time and just hoping that you raise... because then they know they'll be ahead of you... or fold, by which they get free chips with no risk.
Raise/folding too often is definitely something that a good player will pick up on and try to exploit in this exact manner.

AGREE to all the words written here.

twice the SB 3bet me because i thought i got a good read on them they were 3betting light and they would fold and I jammed and twice I'm way behind. that's 100% stats

next time i'll be careful of the SB 3bet

thank you Teachers I learned a lot from this hand again even though I lost my chance to win a big tournament it's not the end. There will always be light at the end of the tunnel

ONE TIME BIG TIME is still on
 

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