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A,Js from early position

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A,Js from early position - Sat Dec 17, 2011, 09:01 PM
(#1)
deadeyz's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 114


$2.20 Mtt with 8K guranteed, 305 players left and we are in the money. 17.5bb stack which is below average.

After opening utg and facing a min raise from an opp (who won a big pot with A,K previous hand so I felt he was splashing chips around), I instantly jammed. Although the opp tanked for a while and eventually made the call, should I have ran the clock down before shoving.

Was that the right play to jam in that spot or should I have waited for a better spot. I felt that with 17.5bb stack I had to go with it and if we double up we have above average stack which would enable us to make a deep run. Although it did cross my mind that he could possibly have a bigger ace but my gut feeling was that I was ahead.

Any comments would be appreciated as always. It has been very beneficial since I have started using this forum so thank you guys.

Cheers
 
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Sat Dec 17, 2011, 09:11 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
You are in a tough decision spot with AJs in EP on this depth of money no matter what really...

1) you need chips too much to really like folding it
2) you are too vulnerable to a raise you might not like to call if you limp
3) your hand is not really strong enough to raise, then withstand a 3Bet from many typical ranges, because you are not yet quite short enough to want to take the risk of flatting a 3bet.
4) you do not want to move all in, because that is "value owning" yourself; you get called by better and fold out worse.

So what DO you do?

About the only thing you can do is make sure you have reads on opponents to act behind you (everyone that is), to give you an idea what you need to do in various scenarioes.

If you lack this sort of info, the info you;d need to "predict" your best course of action when you see what opponents behind you actually will do, you are probably better off folding this hand; afterall, passing up this hand NOW, because of bad position, is better than making a mistake that might cost you your entire stack if you lack info...

But if you DO have those sorts of reads on opponents, at least enough of a read on each of them to know who may 3bet somewhat light, and who would only do it heavy, AJs may be a bit too big to pass up.

In this spot, I like a small-ish raise, somewhere between 2.2 and 2.5BB to go.

At that point, while you are certainly leaving yourself open for "attack" by a 3bettor, at least they have to think you may only play near the TOP of your range from UTG.

If the 3bet happens, I am jamming over it if the raiser is a wide 3bettor (especially if my stack represents a big loss to him), and I am FOLDING to preserve 15BB or so if he is a tight 3bettor.

The sizing of a 3Bet is not really critical here, as ANY raise over an amount that is small-ish is going to pay a pretty good price for someone to call for the rest of your stack. so that means whether you are jamming over a 3bet or not really depends on whether the person who 3bets is highly aggro and wide if/when he does that.

One note tho: if a 3bet is quite LARGE in relation to your raise (2.5 to 3.5 times the amount you raised), I'd be more prone to fold...even if the villain is a loose 3bettor. Why?

Because then a jam over that raise lays such BIG odds a 3bettor would be a fool to fold even live card hands. That increases the chance he has a BIG hand that he wants you to call, and he may be praying you think that big bet is so big because it is a bluff. In that spot though, since he is all but forced to call, unless the guy is a maniac aggro type I am really thinking a fold of AJ to solider on with 15BB is better than the risk of running into a dominating hand.

Another fact that tilts you toward a jam (or away from it) is your own IMAGE, and how opp's might re-act to that. The more they might think you are light when you raise UTG, the more you want to be jamming over them if they do 3bet. If they think you are uber tight tho, it is tricky...some opp's will test you with a small 3bet, thinking you are desprete, and some will only 3bet you REALLY STRONG in hopes you jam into a hand like KK with an AK...

All in all here, I really have to say that I see no problem with your line of raise/jam as long as you thought this villain might raise you somewhat light.

As the hand played out you did have the better holding, but his 3bet, even though very small, laid him a good price to call for the rest of your stack with around a 38% chance to run you down.

If you had him ranged so that this KQ is somewhere near the middle of his 3bet hands vs your image, then your actions were perfectly fine.

...after that, it was just bad luck he out flopped you, and you did not hit your flush draw.

The IMPORTANT thing is what you were thinking about when you jammed, and as long as that decision was made with good reason, you played the hand perfectly. Per your lead in notes, you say you feel he was just splashing, so that is your read...you went with your gut, and you were correct that you were ahead. that is all you can ask for...

Hope it helps.

-JDean

Last edited by JDean; Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 09:43 PM..
 
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Sat Dec 17, 2011, 09:42 PM
(#3)
deadeyz's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
You are in a tough decision spot with AJs in EP on this depth of money no matter what really...

1) you need chips too much to really like folding it
2) you are too vulnerable to a raise you might not like to call if you limp
3) your hand is not really strong enough to raise, then withstand a 3Bet from many typical ranges, because you are not yet quite short enough to want to take the risk of flatting a 3bet.
4) you do not want to move all in, because that is "value owning" yourself; you get called by better and fold out worse.

So what DO you do?

About the only thing you can do is make sure you have reads on opponents to act behind you (everyone that is), to give you an idea what you need to do in various scenarioes.

If you lack this sort of info, the info you;d need to "predict" your best course of action when you see what opponents behind you actually will do, you are probably better off folding this hand; afterall, passing up this hand NOW, because of bad position, is better than making a mistake that might cost you your entire stack if you lack info...

But if you DO have those sorts of reads on opponents, at least enough of a read on each of them to know who may 3bet somewhat light, and who would only do it heavy, AJs may be a bit too big to pass up.

In this spot, I like a small-ish raise, somewhere between 2.2 and 2.5BB to go.

At that point, while you are certainly leaving yourself open for "attack" by a 3bettor, at least they have to think you may only play near the TOP of your range from UTG.

If the 3bet happens, I am jamming over it if the raiser is a wide 3bettor (especially if my stack represents a big loss to him), and I am FOLDING to preserve 15BB or so if he is a tight 3bettor.

The sizing of a 3Bet is not really critical here, as ANY raise over an amount that is small-ish is going to pay a pretty good price for someone to call for the rest of your stack. so that means whether you are jamming over a 3bet or not really depends on whether the person who 3bets is highly aggro and wide if/when he does that.

One note tho: if a 3bet is quite LARGE in relation to your raise (2.5 to 3.5 times the amount you raised), I'd be more prone to fold...even if the villain is a loose 3bettor. Why?

Because then a jam over that raise lays such BIG odds a 3bettor would be a fool to fold even live card hands. That increases the chance he has a BIG hand that he wants you to call, and he may be praying you think that big bet is so big because it is a bluff. In that spot though, since he is all but forced to call, unless the guy is a maniac aggro type I am really thinking a fold of AJ o solider on with 15BB is better than the risk of running into a dominating hand.

Another fact that tilts you toward a jam (or away from it) is your own IMAGE, and how opp's might re-act to that. The more they might think you are light when you raise UTG, the more you want to be jamming over them if they do 3bet. If they think you are uber tight tho, it is tricky...some opp's will test you with a small 3bet, thinking you are desprete, and some will only 3bet you REALLY STRONG in hopes you jam into a hand like KK with an AK...

All in all here, really have to say that I see no problem with your line of raise/jam as long as you thought this villain might raise you somewhat light.

As the hand played out, you did have the better holding, but his 3bet, even though very small, laid him a good price to call for the rest of your stack with around a 38% chance to run you down.

If you had him ranged so that this KQ is somewhere near the middle of his 3bet hands vs your image, then your actions were perfectly fine.

...after that, it was just bad luck he out flopped you, and you did not hit your flush draw.

The IMPORTANT thing is what you were thinking about when you jammed, and as long as that decision was made with good reason, you played the hand perfectly.

Hope it helps.

-JDean
Thank you very much JDean for very insightful analysis of the hand. I do feel that I need to work on my reads and better note taking on opps.
 

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