Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

missing value and getting lucky?

Old
Default
missing value and getting lucky? - Sun Dec 18, 2011, 06:29 AM
(#1)
rule110's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 147
1. this is

Last edited by rule110; Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 01:31 PM..
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 07:57 AM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Post unrelated hands in seperate threads to give each thread more focus. I have to skip most of this in order to address each situation seperately, and it's hard to catch up on the discussion after a few people have posted if it's super-long and dealing with three different hands.

Regarding the first hand, I like your line, but I'd have preferred a fold preflop. By only calling down, you may seem passive, but I think you're extracting a lot of value from bluffs. The second, smaller barrel makes me think the villain is doubtful of his hand, which means it's probably weaker than yours and he's likely to fold if you raise. If you raise on the flop or turn, I think you scare away most hands that aren't beating you, and the ones that do beat you will call or raise back. I think a small river bet would have been in order.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 08:07 AM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
In the second hand, I don't like your turn bet either. Sets would call, two pair would probably call if the villain somehow has that, and maybe AQ and KQ would call, but you're rarely getting called by worse, which would be fine if the bet was for much less than the pot and you were bluffing. Not good in this situation.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:36 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I agree with Panicky. If you've got multiple hands that are unrelated, it'll be better for you to post them in different threads, as it'll be easier to get a discussion on each going, instead of putting them all together.

J 10 hand: You do have top pair, but a pretty weak kicker. I like the way you played it. The only thing you could have done differently would be to lead out on the flop, but then you're playing a bloated pot, out of position, with a bad kicker.
I'd be making a note on the opp that they're playing pretty aggressively tought.

AA hand: you played it fine preflop and on the flop. Way, way too big of a bet on the turn. You should have made your turn bet just like the flop bet (about 75% of the pot). Your bet screams monster or air... and if the opp doesn't have a Q, they can't even beat air.

44 hand: don't care for a min-raise preflop, make it 2.5BB or limp. Flop bet sizing is fine.
On the turn: I like your initial bet, but when the opp min-raises, I think your 3-bet is a bit too big. I'd have raised it to about $3. You gor lucky and the opp called your shove (which most opps will not unless they have at least 2 pair... and they never should have called a preflop raise with Q7). You want to size the 3-bet so that the opp will be sure to call it and not fold, or you're losing value in the long run.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:54 AM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
44 hand: don't care for a min-raise preflop, make it 2.5BB or limp.
I'm curious why you see limping as being better than minraising. I think that minraising is better because it gives initiative, and because of the depth of stacks, the SPR ends up sufficiently deep for speculative hands like 44 either way.

Not that it's really applicable here, since the villain obviously thinks he has a monster, but in the 44 hand, I think that reraising for any less than an all-in shove is actually a tell that you have a monster. I think that shipping it makes you look weaker (which is good), but that's if I was sitting across from you, so making a smaller reraise might be a more effective approach against some villains.
 
Old
Default
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 11:16 AM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
min-raising is normally out of character for most players. You want to keep your raises standard, so that the opp can't pick up anything on you. If you min raise some, 2.5X some, 3X some.... a good opp will pick up on that real quick and take advantage of it.

The reason I'd like betting more is that by betting a bit less is that the opp won't necessarily be forced to go all-in. They're pot committed, but still have some chips in front of them.
Opps in many cases will call a bet slightly lower than their stack size, that they will not call if you make them put all their chips in. It's a mentality thing that they think that they must have a much stronger hand to put ALL their chips in, while they'll call a few less chips with a weaker hand.
There's still time to get the rest of their stack, but since you've got trips, you want to make it so there is a higher chance that the opp will call.
Shipping it does make you look a little weaker, but the ? is... will they call a shove?
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com