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Two Questions

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Two Questions - Mon Dec 19, 2011, 05:38 PM
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hamburglarid's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
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In this hand this hand my opponent shoves six and a half big blinds and I fold ace ten. He was playing 12/12 over seventy hands so I think that it is probably a good fold against his range. Where do I draw the line against a tight aggressive player? Should I be calling with ace jack?



In this hand I resteal with ace king. I am wondering if I should have made it 2100 instead hoping that he ships it with ace queen or ace jack.
 
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Mon Dec 19, 2011, 07:12 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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first hand:
Was this before or after being ITM?
If it's after, then I'm calling this with A 10 in a heartbeat. The opp is looking for any hand to shove, as they need to chip up to move into the top 3 and will be shoving light.
If it's before, then I'd be more apt to fold, as I'd be worried about the 2 larger stacks behind me shoving over me and I'd want to get ITM first, before taking more chances.

To tell where the line on what to call with is... will depend on where you're at in the tourney, along with the play of the players at your table.

second hand:
I like shoving to steal if you want to steal with a hand that doesn't have much playability. You've got a very good hand with a lot of playability. I'd want to make a std raise here and then try to outplay the player after the flop.
If the opp calls your shove, almost all the hands they call with will be ahead of you, which is what you don't want. You want to be in a situation where you can win the most chips possible with the playability of your hand.

Although, shoving and getting chips without putting yours at risk is a good option to have
 
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Mon Dec 19, 2011, 07:19 PM
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hamburglarid's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 131
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I think the first hand is on the bubble or one before the bubble. In the second hand I was thinking about what you said after I shoved. I think I am likely to get some calls from worse and a lot of flips, but I am also thinking about trying to take advantage of my weaker opponents post-flop.
 
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Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:54 PM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Hand #1:

To answer your question exactly, your CALLING range should be uber tight.

The only hands you should really risk calling on here are AA/KK, the ones which far more often than not you will gladly commit to if anyone acting BEHIND you shoves. With these hands, the only reason you should be calling is in hopes that by doing so you can build a SIDE POT versus the larger stacks behind you, all of whom represent a severe THREAT to your stack (min loss possibly 61% of your chips to any of them).

So in effect, your real question should be: what is my RAISE RANGE versus this all in.

This is really not the spot, this close to the bubble, for you to be calling AT ALL.
Doing so opens you up to a possible squeeze by any of the 3 stacks behind you, and if you have called the all in on a marginal holding, a raise by someone behind you might put you into a spot where you will have to consider mucking 21% of your stack...not good for you.

You see...

A squeeze, especially by the BTN player, can receive quite good odds for much WEAKER hands than AT here, as a call by you lays roughly 2.3 to 1 for them to try as long as they feel there is a good chance to get rid of your stack.

Odds like that "pay" some one with the ability to pull the trigger the right price to take a hand into battle which the may feel could be dominated, but may not be. I say this because receiving a 2.3 to 1 price means they need only about a 30% chance to beat the all in...as long as they can get rid of YOU, and leave your "dead moeny" in the pot.

The KEY point is: Even though you might suspect your late position opponent of a squeeze when you call the all in with a marginal hand (any hand you;d not stake your MTT life on), the chance you are crushed is too much to risk continuning on for your MTT "life". That means you either FOLD 21%, or risk a "hero call".

So all together, this is not a situation of you vs. the all in that you must be ranging.
This is a situation of you versus the all in, PLUS you versus a potential SQUEEZE (3bet raise) range of all players to act behind you.
The only way to AVOID the squeeze would be to raise yourself (to isolate), making it aorund 6000 to go.

Of course putting 60% of your chips in means you WILL put the rest in if someone raises behind you...

Obviously, putting yourself at risk for your entire stack would take a hand quite a bit better than AJ, especially if the all in has a 12/12 playing pattern.

As a rough estimate, if you have at least 1 aggro villain behind you who MIGHT try a squeeze with a semi-weak hand, I would say I might go as wide as AQs, or even AQo (and pp down to 99 or TT) to RAISE this all in.

Note: This would take a read that you have at least 1 very situationally aware opponent behind you; something not all that common in a micro stakes game.

Versus a 12% range, AQs will have about 55% equity, and AQo will have roughly 53%.
Either of those hands is probably good enough to run the risk of calling off your stack on versus an AGGRO player who will opportunistically squeeze here.

If there is not someone likely to squeeze behind unless they are extremely STRONG, then I'd tighten my raise range even more.
I say this because your raise will commit you, and that will mean you must have a hand with a decent chance against a tight raise range since you will be all but forced to call.

In that case I probably only re-raise JJ+, and AKs/AKo.
Any of these are probably good enough for you to stand on except the nittiest of nit ranges if your iso raise gets re-raised.

Bottom line here though is simple: a CALL is not going to be really good for you to make very often at all.
A CALL is going to leave you vulnerable to the squeeze, and you'd much rather NOT have to face the possibility of folding off 20%+ of your stack if it happens, just for a CHANCE to play "limp-y/look-y" poker versus an all in.

Aggression works, use it.



Hand #2:

First, with a hand as strong as AK, you can hardly characterize an all in move off a 27BB stack as a "re-steal".
It is actually a 3bet for value, that more often than not you SHOULD be hoping gets called.

As for your sizing question...

The villain raises 2.3BB to go UTG.
That is just under 10% of your stack here.

A more standard 3bet size by you would be to make it about 1750 to 2450 to go (1.5 times to 2.5 times more than the open raise amount).
That means a standard 3bet amount will AT LEAST put you about 21% invested in the pot.

2/3rds of the time you will have nothing on the flop.
This puts you in a highly tricky spot about what to do if he CALLS your 3bet a good portion of the time.

Now your question about whether you should bet smaller in order to get him to ship hands like AQ/AJ is a valid one, but you also must understand that if he might re-ship on hands like those, he also may do so on hands like 66/77/88...hands which are AHEAD of you (albeit slightly).
The small and medium pp, the hands he might fold if you make it abundantly clear to him YOU are not folding (with a jam pre), will BEAT YOU a bit better than 50% of the time.

While your stack is of a size that it does not necessarily dis-like a race for stacks, it is also large enough that you really do not want to be CALLING into a race for stacks if you can help it. If you jam, and he calls pretty loosely with a hand like 88, so be it...the race is ok for you as long as you are assured of seeing all 5 cards. YOU initiated it though...NOT him.

If he FOLDS 88 though, because you intiated a race for stacks, that is even BETTER for you. sure, you might not win as much, but you have ZERO RISK of busting out also. You pick up 1325 from the pot, that adds 16% to you stack, and you have zero risk of busting instead of about a 52/53% chance of busting if he calls with a mid pp.

Had your stack been around 20k to 25k, and his was around 17k to 20k or so, then I'd say a standard 3bet sizing would be better, on that sizing you can FOLD to a jam and not risk a race without it really hurting your chances. Once you are arund 25BB though, it becoems VERY EXPENSIVE as a % of your stack to 3bet/fold.

So your shove is just fine here.

Good job.

hope it helps.

-JDean

P.S.

On a Special Side note:

"Red Letterman is the best poker player on Earth, and his skills put me to SHAME".

Last edited by JDean; Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 09:58 PM..
 
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Tue Dec 20, 2011, 01:26 AM
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joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Not quite the quote I was expecting, but not bad!!

 
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Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:12 AM
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JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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That was a direct cut n paste from the bet offer.
 
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Thu Dec 22, 2011, 02:23 AM
(#7)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
You guys understand this will get bumped ad infinitum.....

 
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Fri Dec 23, 2011, 01:41 AM
(#8)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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No it won't be...


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Dec 24, 2011, 08:27 PM
(#9)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
No it won't be...
Sigh..............
 

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