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Is there a fold here?

Is there a fold here? - Fri Dec 23, 2011, 02:26 AM
AusBas's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 17
I was playing in a $1.10 tournament and the villain who raises to 22k is super loose, even saying he's a troll when I called him out on one of the plays he made. I'd seen him call an open shove for 3600 with blinds at 50/100 with K9 offsuit. He's also called a shove of mine when i'd pushed for 12 big blinds after someone else opened for 3x the big blind and I was able to show down AK suited to his A6

My own image is tight, the few hands i've taken to showdown have won but i'd had to fold to some of his huge re-raises when this hand came along. I had to planned to call the shove I suspected was coming, I guess i'm wondering if Biber calling my initial raise should have given me more pause when it came to calling the shove.

PokerStars Game #72579180114: Tournament #552010214, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2011/12/22 22:33:33 ACST [2011/12/22 7:03:33 ET]Table '552010214 73' 9-max
Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: AusBas (3845 in chips)
Seat 2: biber999 (3360 in chips)
Seat 4: Odelberg019 (22090 in chips)
Seat 5: lolifolusuck (2900 in chips)
Seat 6: motte27 (5255 in chips)
Seat 7: Jay 1703 (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: tyatya1234 (5225 in chips)
Seat 9: SERGEY1268 (2900 in chips)
lolifolusuck: posts small blind 50
motte27: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AusBas [Tc Ac]
Jay 1703: calls 100
tyatya1234: folds
SERGEY1268: folds
AusBas: raises 200 to 300
biber999: calls 300
Odelberg019: raises 21700 to 22000
dikola259 is connected
lolifolusuck: folds
motte27: folds
Jay 1703: folds
AusBas: calls 3545 and is all-in
biber999: calls 3060 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (18155) returned to Odelberg019
*** FLOP *** [2c Js 6c]***
TURN *** [2c Js 6c] [Ad]***
RIVER *** [2c Js 6c Ad] [5h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AusBas: shows [Tc Ac] (a pair of Aces)
Odelberg019: shows [8h Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
AusBas collected 970 from side pot
biber999: shows [As Ks] (a pair of Aces - King kicker)
biber999 collected 10330 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 11300
Main pot 10330.
Side pot 970.
Rake 0
Board [2c Js 6c Ad 5h]
Seat 1: AusBas showed [Tc Ac] and won (970) with a pair of Aces
Seat 2: biber999 showed [As Ks] and won (10330) with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: Odelberg019 (button) showed [8h Jc] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 5: lolifolusuck (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: motte27 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Jay 1703 folded before Flop
Seat 8: tyatya1234 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: SERGEY1268 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 02:40 AM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
The important info is missing here: what is the call range of your raise by the villain between you and the shover?

While ATo will tend to have decent equity versus the maniac, you have to consider what the guy between you is willing to call off 11% or so of his stack with, when he probably knows as well as you do there is going to be a big raise.

Since he is caught between you and the maniac, he may realize that you are quite likely to see the big stack jam, just as you are able to see it coming. If he recognizes you might be willing to try squeezing him out of the pot with your tight image, he probably does not risk a call here all that often (assuming he is an aware opponent) unless he is on a hand he will play for stacks with.

Obviously, the hand that he might be willing to play for stacks with will vary widely based upon info you have, but there are not a HUGE number of hands a somewhat normal player will call with that you are going to like taking ATo against...

That means unless you have specific info on the first caller that says ATo will tend to play well versus his call range, this might not be a great spot to try the squeeze. 38BB is quite a bit to risk on a squeeze without info afterall...

Hard to say for sure without that info though...

Double Bracelet Winner
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 02:43 AM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I'm inclined to open fold ATs from the cutoff unless the players behind me are tight, not loose. If you planned to raise/call versus a maniac because you knew he'd rejam hands like this, then that was a great idea, although I'd prefer a preflop overlimp in that case. No need to risk more than you have to, and if you must play a flop, you have a good drawing hand to work with.

I can see why this spot was difficult for you, because for all you knew, biber was calling with 55 or 87s or KQo hoping to hit something, but intended to fold to a 3bet from the blinds. As it happened, you weren't the only one setting a trap here, and biber's trap was better. You didn't include any info on biber in your post, so it's hard to say how strong his call should look. If he's running 40/5, then it looks weak. If he's running 13/11, then it does look quite strong.

I've Pokerstoved a very rough estimation of your equity against biber's and the crazy villain's ranges. I think that if the villain here is playing a strong range of hands and is guaranteed to call, you're slightly -EV here. The fact that he could fold and leave you heads-up with the maniac should make this a borderline good call, I think.

If biber was a weak player, though, I think this was an excellent call.
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 02:55 AM
AusBas's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 17
Don't know the percentages but we'd only played 35 hands together before this one occured. Due to the loose villains play everyone was being forced to play somewhat tight. He folded 23 of the 35 hands, limped in 5 times and raised 7. 2 of the raises got through uncontested and he won 5 pots after voluntarily putting chips in.

The hands that went to showdown which won were KQ, 77 and AJ. The limps were small to medium suited connectors, all 5.

He wasn't willing to defend his blinds either.

Apologies for the small sample size.
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 03:09 AM
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Sounds like a guy who'll fold most of the time, then. 35/15, even over 35 hands, is pretty loose/passive.

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