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The Mental Game of Poker

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The Mental Game of Poker - Fri Dec 23, 2011, 03:52 AM
(#1)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 747
Found this a really interesting read the book is written by Jared Tendler, he breaks tilt down into different categories such as :

Running Bad Tilt

Injustice Tilt

Hate-Losing Tilt

Mistake Tilt

Entitlement Tilt

Revenge Tilt

Desperation Tilt

Topics also covered include: Fear, Motivation and Confidence.
 
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Fri Dec 23, 2011, 08:33 AM
(#2)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
ok,

hiccup......now this may be just me.....

How to avoid tilt is very easy,

Just ask yourself this question,

Can l afford to lose this game?

If the answer is no, you should not be in it,plain and simple,

Poker is a gamble, there is no for sure plan to win, no matter how much you think you know,

ATC can come,

IMO tilters can't afford to lose,so please don't play, no wait....play, l just don't want to hear about...hiccup

One think l don't do is read the bad beat section, that would tilt me...lol


Please remember this is my opinion only,

so read all you want,
over think it,
and tilt


Merry Xmas All

disclaimer - very early,had 3 strokes,old,etc
 
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Fri Dec 23, 2011, 03:11 PM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Add another one...

"Joy Tilt".
(no relation to PSO'er Joy7108 )

This would be the act of allowing FAVORABLE outcomes to cloud your judgement at the table, and effect your decisions.

I've seen it numerous times, and experienced it myself:

You are playing at a very loose and passive table.

You get involved in a couple of good spots with suited connectors for cheap, and BAM, those come in for you.

Pretty soon, your luck has created a large stack in front of you, and you are quite happy...

Since you feel bullet proof, like Super Man on Steroids, the world is your oyster, nothing can go wrong, you start to miss little things like you are now calling RAISES with suited connectors, and is not the same as limping along from position in multi way pots with them.

Your "joy" in winning has blinded you to the possibility that a tiny change in your play standards has led you out of the realm of good profit potential situations, into precarious spots where the chance of chip loss is great.

If you do not catch this nefarious form of tilt early enough, you can easily bleed off all your profits, and maybe more, and wonder why you are so un-lucky that you NEVER HIT...

...it is the nature of the losses, coming only AFTER you've shown yourself you CAN WIN, that makes it so hard to pick up on Joy tilt. but if you do not recognize it, that is a form of tilt that can keep coming back again and again...


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri Dec 23, 2011, 03:43 PM
(#4)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I've looked over this list, and it's interesting to me how I really don't experience some of these forms of tilt, but other get me quite a lot.

I do experience Running Bad Tilt quite a lot, and it's particularly annoying because I always have to cut my sessions short when it sets in, so my intended three-hours sessions often become one-hour sessions. Conversely, I sometimes get a little Joy Tilt (or Happy Tilt, as I like to call it) but it doesn't last long.

I used to get Mistake Tilt all the time, but after I took my four-month break, I've found that I have a lot more confidence in my own ability to make decisions, and I get tilted a lot less than I did before because I know that almost every time I bust, I had a reason to get my chips in the way I did. I can justify my decisions, and I'm not being held accountible to anyone else, so why be bothered by it?

None of the others affect me, although I have another one to add to the list. I get bored every once in awhile when I'm running okay but have been playing for hours and have only profited a dollar or two. I consider Boredom Tilt to be one of my problems.

Anyone have different lists of their tilt problems?
 
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Fri Dec 23, 2011, 04:06 PM
(#5)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 747
From just being aware of these types of tilt has helped me because I see it my opponents frequently and then can exploit them, the one most likely to show in an opponent is revenge, in a MTT players cant just get up and stop playing when something tilts them and how often do you hear of players chasing loses when they are running bad.
 
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Sun Dec 25, 2011, 01:01 AM
(#6)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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I read an excerpt online of this book and it sounds really good.

Sometimes it's kind of hard to know if you're tilted or not. Does everybody who experiences downswings necessarily go on tilt? Or is tilt only measured in terms of the way one's play changes (if at all)?

Because I'm in a downswing, but I don't think I'm playing any different than usual. My expectations are different because I'm running -EV ... so like when my AKs is up against AQo, etc, I don't necessarily expect to win - and I'm not surprised when I lose to a two-outer or a runner runner. But my play hasn't changed.

Hope it might be on sale on Boxing Day. Otherwise I may download it ... sometimes books are cheaper that way

Thx for sharing Rex!
 
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Sun Dec 25, 2011, 06:03 AM
(#7)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 747
To answer your question I dont think everyone who experiences a downswing goes on tilt as we all handle this situation differently. Tilt is when an emotion is affecting your decision making, even a small amount of tilt can effect your decision making meaning you are playing your C or D game when you really what to aim to play your A game as much as possible, when a proffesional poker player game slips to their C game they could lose lots of money when just small edges effect their win rate.
 
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Sun Dec 25, 2011, 11:55 PM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73REX73 View Post
To answer your question I dont think everyone who experiences a downswing goes on tilt as we all handle this situation differently. Tilt is when an emotion is affecting your decision making, even a small amount of tilt can effect your decision making meaning you are playing your C or D game when you really what to aim to play your A game as much as possible, when a proffesional poker player game slips to their C game they could lose lots of money when just small edges effect their win rate.
I downloaded it and was reading it while everybody was watching football

I like how he described the benefits of the book - of how it's like the way Tiger Woods revolutionized golf by making work with a personal trainer and a sports psychologist central to his training regime. And then it worked so great, that everybody else started doing it too.

And then just the whole premise of the book too - that working through the exercises'll help a person be more aware and more conscious, and therefore more prepared mentally, and therefore more resilient, and therefore more profitable.

When it got to the actual nuts and bolts of having to work through all the tilt stuff though, I started to get antsy ... which is probably a sign that I'm more tilted than I'd like to admit I guess the actual reading of the book won't take so long ... but applying the stuff ... that may take Sammy some time

Work in progress!
 
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Mon Dec 26, 2011, 12:40 AM
(#9)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
For me, tilt is when my play is affected, and only then. I can shove all my chips in, and as long as I beleive I made the right decision, I can live with it, win or lose.

How many times have you folded a hand, only to think later, gee, my 83os would have won. But you still made the right decision when you folded that 83os, so in my book only the correct fold matters. The fact that you would have won the hand is immaterial, the important thing is that you make the correct decision.

It's taken me 3 years to learn this, and it will probably take me three more to correctly apply the knowledge. By then, the game will have changed again, that's the beauty of it, it's never boring!!

 
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Mon Dec 26, 2011, 04:47 AM
(#10)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 747
Until I read the book and started to do the work I did not think I was tilting, I bought the book because I was interested in motivational techniques, like how do grinders play for so long playing so many tables, because I wanted to get back to feeling about poker like I did when I first started playing, when I could play for hours and hours.

Reading the book has made me realise I am experiencing subtle amounts of tilt that affect my motivation not crazy monkey tilt where players smash their keyboard or punch the wall. When I tilt I just stop playing because I cant get motivated and I wanted to take a shot at the skill league, but you have to play more games than I was able to do.

Until I read the book I was not able to understand tilt and the effects it has.

Profesional players or players who set goals cant just stop playing they have to play through a downswing and learning the techniques in this book has allowed players to play more and at a higher quality of play.
 
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Mon Dec 26, 2011, 07:30 AM
(#11)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
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Well being a black belt at tilt i think theres alot more to tilt than just the game of poker itself, If your sitting there after god knows how many hours of play then theres a knock at the front door u answer it and its an invasion of family, within mins u have a house full of ppl, kids running about and ppl trying to chat to u, now your concentration levels have gone from 100% to say 20-30% then bam without knowing it u just walked yourself into tilt, i think tilt factors can be found in almost everything, all because of all the passion u feel for the game of poker.When u play poker alot it becomes part of your life, so everything in life then becomes part of your poker game.
 
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Mon Dec 26, 2011, 04:47 PM
(#12)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
Add another one...

"Joy Tilt".
(no relation to PSO'er Joy7108 )

This would be the act of allowing FAVORABLE outcomes to cloud your judgement at the table, and effect your decisions.

I've seen it numerous times, and experienced it myself:

You are playing at a very loose and passive table.

You get involved in a couple of good spots with suited connectors for cheap, and BAM, those come in for you.

Pretty soon, your luck has created a large stack in front of you, and you are quite happy...

Since you feel bullet proof, like Super Man on Steroids, the world is your oyster, nothing can go wrong, you start to miss little things like you are now calling RAISES with suited connectors, and is not the same as limping along from position in multi way pots with them.

Your "joy" in winning has blinded you to the possibility that a tiny change in your play standards has led you out of the realm of good profit potential situations, into precarious spots where the chance of chip loss is great.

If you do not catch this nefarious form of tilt early enough, you can easily bleed off all your profits, and maybe more, and wonder why you are so un-lucky that you NEVER HIT...

...it is the nature of the losses, coming only AFTER you've shown yourself you CAN WIN, that makes it so hard to pick up on Joy tilt. but if you do not recognize it, that is a form of tilt that can keep coming back again and again...
I must admit i'm guilty of this but some times i over correct it by playing too tight and start chips savings even to the extent of folding marginal hands with 1-2 limpers and missed 3 roll so when monster hands comes i'll bleed my chips
 
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Tue Dec 27, 2011, 01:28 AM
(#13)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
What's different about the Tendler approach is that rather than suggest people take a break, he recommends people meet the tilt head-on. Which on the one hand can be unpleasant. But on the other hand, it's kind of like he's teaching people how to taking control of a situation (variance) that can sometimes feel very much outside of one's control?

The process he's trying to teach is similar to what Effsea and Joy are employing in a way - like he uses reframing in terms of the big picture, I guess by playing devil's advocate?

Like after one or two bad beats, I think most people are able to bounce back so long as the game continues to feel 'fair'. But what about if it drags on for like a week?

I think I've kind of been experiencing 'injustice tilt' from having hands such as this one, for like a week straight (CAUTION: Contains a bad beat):



So Tendler's antidote is that, rather than take a break, we're supposed to keep trying to find a counterargument to our belief, until we find one that sticks such that we no longer feel like we've experienced all this injustice - instead we're supposed to feel like we've been lucky and/or that we've still got a lot to learn.

So like this is an embarassing hand to have to show people, but if the odds had held I should have been out of the $11 Sunday Storm. Instead I cashed and made $30 profit ($40 minus the buy-in):



So, as awfully -EV as my week has been, I think I'm still actually up $10 from 2 weeks ago, or something like that? And breaking even on my $1.50 STT's. So that's kind of sobering.

And like without going through that process, I don't think I'd have been able to appreciate the learning opportunity that hands like this one have afforded:



I didn't realize 99933 beat AA333!

And I'm still forgetting to include quads in my ranges! And am still falling in love with my monster hands and calling raises because I'm getting good odds, even though I'm like 99.99% certain I'm behind. You don't really get the chance to work on these things unless you're in a prolonged downswing. So it's in a way a really nice opportunity to learn

It's kind of hard to do this book justice, but it's so much more than dealing with tilt. I can't imagine anybody reading it and coming away from it feeling like they didn't learn something that improved their game. Thumbs up!
 
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Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:38 AM
(#14)
jergul's Avatar
Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 80
I have one:

Microsoft Excel Tilt
A tendency to play poorly when approaching this or that arbitrary threshold point in personal spreadsheet charts and tables.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 03:40 PM
(#15)
brownd86's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 8
i dont tilt much. im wondering as its one of the few books i havnt read. will this book improve the play of someone who doesnt suffer much from tilt? if so what sort of other stuff will i learn that might improve my game? i heard a bit about helping concentration etc, what else is there?
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 04:44 PM
(#16)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I tilt frequently, I find losing several STT's in a row makes me become more tilty.

I'm probably doing the right things but doing the wrong things to correct my losses.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 05:16 PM
(#17)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
I tilt frequently, I find losing several STT's in a row makes me become more tilty.

I'm probably doing the right things but doing the wrong things to correct my losses.
Ovalman,

Losing a dozen STT's in a row should not tilt one IF they were making Good Decisions! Cards come and cards go, but it's the quality of your decisions that directly affects your bottom line. Winning players seek favorable situations and avoid unfavorable ones. Assessing situations and then acting upon those assessments is the critical skill in this game. Every decision you make on the felt can be latter classified as good, bad, or too close to call. Learn to do the first and avoid the second and take the third as they come.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 05:17 PM
(#18)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 747
If you do an internet search on the book you will find the authors web site lots of interesting info about goal setting , motivation, confidence, fear and he also covers the learning model, which helps the reader understand how to learn new skills.

I would post the web address but I am not sure if that would be allowed.

The author also has a radio show, you will find all the info on his website.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 05:22 PM
(#19)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
http://mentalgameofpoker.com/

This is not a competing poker site or poker community.
 
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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 05:25 PM
(#20)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Ovalman,

Losing a dozen STT's in a row should not tilt one IF they were making Good Decisions! Cards come and cards go, but it's the quality of your decisions that directly affects your bottom line. Winning players seek favorable situations and avoid unfavorable ones. Assessing situations and then acting upon those assessments is the critical skill in this game. Every decision you make on the felt can be latter classified as good, bad, or too close to call. Learn to do the first and avoid the second and take the third as they come.
The thing is I count myself as the best player in every game I play. Sounds like boasting but confidence means a lot to me. When I say "I bet he rivers me" it invariably comes home.

I just sharkscoped myself and have 4 times when I've had a 12 game losing streak (and one 14 game cashing streak). This was unheard of a year ago but I now multi table, something I never done a year ago. The fact now I've hit the 12 game mark might tilt me (probably not) but when I hit 9 or 10 losses in a row I'll start to mentally think "I mustn't lose more than 12 in a row" and you know that is tilt in itself.
 

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