Home / Community / Forum / Support Area / Support Center /

not surprised

Old
Default
not surprised - Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:24 PM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
hi all me moaning again well not really a genuine question,not surprised i cannot beat the unbeatable,what i mean by that is im not playing the players on ere but there software programs such as poker tracker 3,which im told is completely legal to use on ere is this true? if so im disgusted,because all this time ive tried to play good poker im having people using these programss and not there minds,
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:35 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,787
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Here's the list of allowed and prohibited software.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:42 PM
(#3)
zZ.Ma$kin.Zz's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
hi all me moaning again well not really a genuine question,not surprised i cannot beat the unbeatable,what i mean by that is im not playing the players on ere but there software programs such as poker tracker 3,which im told is completely legal to use on ere is this true? if so im disgusted,because all this time ive tried to play good poker im having people using these programss and not there minds,

Poker Tracker3 or Holdem Manager are perfectly legal on pokerstars as they 'track statistics' of what cards & how players play during whatever variant of poker they play.

However, they DO NOT GIVE ADVICE on how players actually go about 'playing' their cards. More importantly, tell them what other players may be holding.

They are strictly for statistic gathering purposes only so players using these types of programs can keep track of each session they play. For example....

How many hands they've played.
How much they've won.
VPiP / Pref-flop raising / Aggression factor / Went to showdown etc etc etc.

Players can even review their sessions to see if they have any 'leaks' in their own game.

Perhaps you should invest in one

Last edited by zZ.Ma$kin.Zz; Fri Dec 30, 2011 at 12:45 PM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:44 PM
(#4)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thx jw but i wont use it but damn mate i just seen that particular program in action practically a human bot it was so easy,surely people should only be allowed to use there brain? its the people like me who dont use any who are losing becuase of this its human bots all should be banned the game being spoilt,turned into a computer game,
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:52 PM
(#5)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thx zz but im honestly shocked after seen this program in action and is really wrong in my opinion for this or anything to be allowed except yyour mind,and then as with real poker observation is important not sit bk and let this do it for you,and well as for predicted hand outcome ive just seen an opent fold on flop wen stats say he would its cheating in my book
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:55 PM
(#6)
zZ.Ma$kin.Zz's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
thx jw but i wont use it but damn mate i just seen that particular program in action practically a human bot it was so easy,surely people should only be allowed to use there brain? its the people like me who dont use any who are losing becuase of this its human bots all should be banned the game being spoilt,turned into a computer game,

Tracking program or brain??

Listen Holdem, majority of good people on here are genuinely trying to help you improve as a player. Yet you persistently spout absolute crap with no foundation whatsoever.

Pokerstars take the integrity of the site very seriously. They have numerous ways of 'detection' for anything 'illegal' that may be taking place.

Security


GL @ the tables.
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:55 PM
(#7)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Hmm. Ever used a calculator ?
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 12:55 PM
(#8)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
you really should know whats going on before making statements like that, PT3 and HEM MAKE 0 DECISIONS for you, nor do they tell you what cards are coming up
 
Old
Default
not bothered - Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:01 PM
(#9)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
i give up on this pso i asked pokerstars a question and some of you turned it into a debate, again,
 
Old
Default
roomik - Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:04 PM
(#10)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
i know nothing predicts the cards that are coming who mentioned that? but does hands played and aggression and more you know it
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:08 PM
(#11)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
,and well as for predicted hand outcome ive just seen an opent fold on flop wen stats say he would its cheating in my book
looks like you said it there, or is my English bad?
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:10 PM
(#12)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
no that does not say it predicts the cards that are coming but it said probilty he would fold and he did
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 01:40 PM
(#13)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
These databases HEM,PT3 dont give you any info you cant get manually they're just detailed note takers really. If you have the gumption to, (and enough ink in your pen lol) you can write down any of the info these programs give you..Hope you like writers cramp!
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 02:33 PM
(#14)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
they're just detailed note takers really.
This is essentially accurate.

The assertion that players who use these programs don't have to use their brains is just way off base. The HUD essentially is giving you a complex set of notes, but the more complex the information the more brain power is required to interpret it correctly. In fact in my experiences MOST players do not utilize the stats correctly at least some of the time, and it leads them to making mistakes.

Saying the stats told you a guy was likely to fold in a certain spot, and he folded, so it's cheating just doesn't make sense. If I observe a player open raises frequently from the button and folds to 3 bets preflop, I will 3b them more liberally out of the blinds and expect them to fold a lot in those spots. It doesn't matter if I got that information from a player note I made saying they do this frequently, or my HUD stats that say his button steal is 53% and his fold to 3B is 86%.

Should the HUD replace eyeball observation and brain usage? No, of course not... if you pay attention you can pick things up faster than the HUD. For instance if I see a player limp in UTG, call a raise out of position, and eventually get to showdown with 74o, I don't need to wait for 100 hands of data to know they are loose preflop, I can safely determine that from seeing this one hand. So I can act on this information faster than the HUD would allow for. And at the end of the session when the guy's VPIP turns out to be 62%, I won't be the least bit surprised.

I've said this before and Darkman alluded to it in this thread... the stat trackers are a technology that are available to everyone, and as such they are no more cheating than using a calculator to do math is cheating. Yes they cost a few bucks (so do calculators). If people let them replace their brain completely, their performance will be diminished (in the case of a calculator, the ability to quickly to basic math in their head... in the case of a tracker, the ability to pick up things observationally and to correctly interpret the complex data being received). But like the calculator, they are not cheating.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 02:55 PM
(#15)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
I feel I do alright for a someone who has just over a year playing hold 'em EVER!!!

I don't use any software.

 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 03:07 PM
(#16)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
Just to nit pick a bit!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
These databases HEM,PT3 dont give you any info you cant get manually they're just detailed note takers really. If you have the gumption to, (and enough ink in your pen lol) you can write down any of the info these programs give you..Hope you like writers cramp!
So, would you say it takes notes more accurately, more complex, and way more volume of notes than a person ever could?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
This is essentially accurate.

The assertion that players who use these programs don't have to use their brains is just way off base. The HUD essentially is giving you a complex set of notes, but the more complex the information the more brain power is required to interpret it correctly. In fact in my experiences MOST players do not utilize the stats correctly at least some of the time, and it leads them to making mistakes.

Saying the stats told you a guy was likely to fold in a certain spot, and he folded, so it's cheating just doesn't make sense. If I observe a player open raises frequently from the button and folds to 3 bets preflop, I will 3b them more liberally out of the blinds and expect them to fold a lot in those spots. It doesn't matter if I got that information from a player note I made saying they do this frequently, or my HUD stats that say his button steal is 53% and his fold to 3B is 86%.

Should the HUD replace eyeball observation and brain usage? No, of course not... if you pay attention you can pick things up faster than the HUD. For instance if I see a player limp in UTG, call a raise out of position, and eventually get to showdown with 74o, I don't need to wait for 100 hands of data to know they are loose preflop, I can safely determine that from seeing this one hand. So I can act on this information faster than the HUD would allow for. And at the end of the session when the guy's VPIP turns out to be 62%, I won't be the least bit surprised.

I've said this before and Darkman alluded to it in this thread... the stat trackers are a technology that are available to everyone, and as such they are no more cheating than using a calculator to do math is cheating. Yes they cost a few bucks (so do calculators). If people let them replace their brain completely, their performance will be diminished (in the case of a calculator, the ability to quickly to basic math in their head... in the case of a tracker, the ability to pick up things observationally and to correctly interpret the complex data being received). But like the calculator, they are not cheating.
Though you are right of you being able to pick up on reads faster than the HUD, would you say that it's memory tomorrow, next week, month or year will be better than humanly possible?



I'm not against peoples use of software, if that makes them comfortable that is fine. I personally don't use them, not even the trial versions. My point to "holdem" is that you can adjust your game to this fact of a lot of people use either PT3 or HEM.

 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 03:44 PM
(#17)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker41673 View Post




So, would you say it takes notes more accurately, more complex, and way more volume of notes than a person ever could?
For the extremely vast majority of ppl, absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joker41673 View Post

Though you are right of you being able to pick up on reads faster than the HUD, would you say that it's memory tomorrow, next week, month or year will be better than humanly possible?

Haven't you seen unforgetable yet? i'm lucky if I remember what happened 10 minutes ago!

Last edited by mtnestegg; Fri Dec 30, 2011 at 03:46 PM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 04:33 PM
(#18)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I use glasses to help me see.

I use Dragon naturally speaking to help me write.

I use Poker Tracker 3 to help me remember Stats.

I do not consider my self a cheat for any of them (i have now been implied as a cheat fro using 2 of them)

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 30, 2011, 04:42 PM
(#19)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
I use glasses to help me see.

I use Dragon naturally speaking to help me write.

I use Poker Tracker 3 to help me remember Stats.

I do not consider my self a cheat for any of them (i have now been implied as a cheat fro using 2 of them)

Grade b
That sucks... at least they don't think you're cheating with the dragon software!!!

 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com