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another one-to bluff or not to--3.5R180man

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another one-to bluff or not to--3.5R180man - Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:21 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

if i win this im giving myself a chance to be in the money losing this is push/shove mode

Im raising loosely because because I want to win all the blinds then maybe if i will get a hand i might get paid

im starting to play differrently in middle stages of the tournament but still learning and trying to improve just don't know when to stop playing aggressively

because I notice that I'm good in the early stages im confident in my game but in the middle stages I'm starting to get nervous because table transfer is so often and i'm not getting any good read on any opp i get a hand with

I'm becoming a nit player in the middle stages and everyone is just keep on raising and winning blinds while I always get blinded out. I keep on waiting for my hand that from 30BB I'm always down to 15BB and then when I have a hand of course everyone's folding

now im changing my strategy my strategy in the middle stages as long as I got 20-30BB I'm going to play loosely and try to win as many chips as possible

because i notice particularly in this kind tournament , when someone raise everyone folds except for the short stack who's going to go all in, the average and middle stack will get out of the way.

I need help in this situation
 
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Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:37 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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100% instant fold preflop.

When you steal, you want to be in late position (you're in early position) and you want to have a playable hand if you get called (in this case yours is marginal at best). 8 10 off is even behind a random hand, let alone a decent one.

16+BB is a very playable stack and is a good stack for stealing late or re-stealing if someone std raises.

Muck the unplayable hand and wait until you get a real hand or you're in position with a marginal hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
now im changing my strategy my strategy in the middle stages as long as I got 20-30BB I'm going to play loosely and try to win as many chips as possible
There's the smart way to do this (playable hand in position) and the wrong way (unplayable hand out of position).


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Fri Dec 30, 2011, 06:59 PM
(#3)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
100% instant fold preflop.

When you steal, you want to be in late position (you're in early position) and you want to have a playable hand if you get called (in this case yours is marginal at best). 8 10 off is even behind a random hand, let alone a decent one.

16+BB is a very playable stack and is a good stack for stealing late or re-stealing if someone std raises.

Muck the unplayable hand and wait until you get a real hand or you're in position with a marginal hand.



There's the smart way to do this (playable hand in position) and the wrong way (unplayable hand out of position).
good

lessons learned

storing in my poker mind

maybe im just frustrated that im always getting into the top10 in chips but not getting the job done always because im playing too tight, i think last 3 days in this kind of tourney im always in the top ten but the best result is 12th place. one time i have 60BB then lose 20BB because of suck out. Im ok i didn't tilt i can handle suck out but the problem from 40BB didn't play a hand because opp keeps raising and i keep folding. then when im down to 15BB i will lose my all in PRE. always like this.

Can't even play post flop poker in the middle stages with 40BB because there's no open spot for me. Can't 3bet with marginal hand because every opp is different, someone raises another one will raise and so on and so on until i'm down to 15BB or less

yes, i forgot all about the position i just keep playing maniac in any position and hope everyone's folding if someone one's to play im getting to play with all my stacks which is bad bad bad....

next time i'll try to steal in position
 
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Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:16 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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the reason you're probably having as much trouble with the middle stages is that you're playing way, way too loose early on (how you get a big stack early) and it's destroying your table image. Once experienced players see you playing loose, they'll take advantage of it by waiting for a real hand, then calling your bluffs.... or 3-betting you more often (which you can't call with a marginal hand). It also means that your steal attempts will not work as much, due to the players knowing you'll attempt them too often and out of position.

If you're playing a TAG style early in a tourney, you will very, very rarely (unless you're just getting smacked by the deck) be in the top 10 in chips within the first 30 min or so. If you're doing this very frequently, you're probably playing too loose early, then tightening up later..... which is the exact opposite of what you want to do (play tight early and loose late).


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Fri Dec 30, 2011, 07:24 PM
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marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
the reason you're probably having as much trouble with the middle stages is that you're playing way, way too loose early on (how you get a big stack early) and it's destroying your table image. Once experienced players see you playing loose, they'll take advantage of it by waiting for a real hand, then calling your bluffs.... or 3-betting you more often (which you can't call with a marginal hand). It also means that your steal attempts will not work as much, due to the players knowing you'll attempt them too often and out of position.

If you're playing a TAG style early in a tourney, you will very, very rarely (unless you're just getting smacked by the deck) be in the top 10 in chips within the first 30 min or so. If you're doing this very frequently, you're probably playing too loose early, then tightening up later..... which is the exact opposite of what you want to do (play tight early and loose late).
no this is not true,

im playing TAG style early

im getting chips through TAG style, Im just waiting for best hands and not even calling 1BB more when I'm in the BB pos even with suited connectors in the early stages

im winning chips early by playing good solid poker, in the early stages i know all my opp and im playing based on them because in early stages im playing with the same opp at least 3 levels before i will get transfered. I can exploit them and playing based on their moves.

I really really not playing loose in the early stages

i'm accumulating chips early without showdown most of the times and if i get showdown i have a good hand.

the problem really is the middle stages i just seem can't get deeper. everyone is so loose that i
tend to play tighter and wait for good hands the problem is i always get blinded down and when i get a hand i get no action. when i get all in PRE i lose.
 
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Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:57 AM
(#6)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Your preflop raise is way too big. Readless this is not a good spot for you. You're better off saving your chips to have resteal fold equity. But this is only really useful against someone who is raising light. If there's not much difference between a players raising and 3-bet shove calling range, then you will actually need a hand to resteal. Anyhow, if someone jams over your raise you have to fold. Save yourself some chips and raise to 2-2.2 BBs. You may get some extra respect for your EP raise too.

Depending on table reads and your image, raising here is fine. Your hand is weak enough that you're definitely going to be folding it to a shove. And since you're likely to get more respect for opening from UTG+1, a shove is more likely going to be from a strong hand than a resteal. Plus making such a move helps balance your range a bit. Besides poker is more about the situation than your cards. If I'm playing really tight every once in a while I will throw in a preflop bluff raise. With some hand that plays fairly well postflop. Hands like T8o, 96o, 87o, 53s, etc. They're really weak hands overall, so they're easy to fold to a shove, but at the same time when you hit postflop it's pretty easy to know where you stand and you are rarely dominated. I do this for a few reasons. Often I can pick up the chips preflop or with a c-bet on many flops, which is very helpful when you're not getting all the cards. Also, it prevents my range from being too top heavy and does allow for the possibility of me having the nuts on 875 (or at least a pair) and not being check/raised every time I do just have AK. And by having some weaker hands in your raising range it lets opponents think they can resteal from you rather than just fold all their weak hands. They may also call with worse which is fine for you too.

So I can go either way on raising T8o here. Depends if you have any reads on the opponents, particularly the button and the blinds. If you're going to raise it though, it's gotta be a lot smaller. You don't want to risk so much on a bluff, AND, with your value hands you want people to think they have resteal fold equity so that they'll jam worse. A bigger raise from you forces you to have better odds to call a shove, so they automatically won't have as much fold equity.

Also, when you're under 20 BBs you really don't want to be raise/folding. You can with your bluffs from time to time, but you'd definitely want to open-fold a hand like KTo here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
If you're doing this very frequently, you're probably playing too loose early, then tightening up later..... which is the exact opposite of what you want to do (play tight early and loose late).
This is pretty much the opposite of how I play Loose early while the stacks are deep and the donks are in. Tight later where every chip I lose is lost fold equity. My jam range loosens obviously, but calling becomes unprofitable. When the stacks are shallower it becomes harder to play postflop, and thus floating and trying to really outplay my opponent (with pot control/inducing/bluffing) are no longer options. I can't really call the flop to see what he does on the turn if calling the flop makes me pot-committed. Early on I'm happy to play a wide range in position against the field of fish.


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Last edited by oriholic; Sat Dec 31, 2011 at 01:00 AM..
 

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