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br management that works for me

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br management that works for me - Mon Jan 02, 2012, 01:51 PM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
i could not find the br <bankroll to newbies> management so posted this here for any one who wants know something that does work and works well...
ok...e.g 10 dolllers where to start
firstly it depends on what type of player you are? question your own abilities and confidence.........
ok so lets take it your a complete novice....but you have played free play poker and did ok so thats why you are here....
ok firstly the obvious enter the freerolls,they are frustrating but hey cost nothing..
then as told to me by others 45ppl sng for 25c great.....
but how to subsidise these tourneys without affecting your br is the trick...!
what i do go on 1c 2c no limit with minimum buyin of 80c,...
yes almost 10 percent of my starting br a risky play to start....
but bare in mind grind your way to 1.05 from 80c and thats a free 45ppl sng at 25c with a 3 doller first prize and top 7 get payed...
so yes if you are confident this does work and can soon build a stack to play at over levels...
so another thing i do lets say we are 17 dollers of our ten.....
its well worth risking say 55c on a big mtt that have some good prizes that if you hit one you will have a great br to play with so bare this in mind but only play one now and again dont go chasing them as ive busted so many time my br just playing them.
hope this helps some of you ....
 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 03:55 PM
(#2)
CannonLee's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,418
**moved**



Quintuple Bracelet Winner

 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:03 PM
(#3)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
i could not find the br <bankroll to newbies> management so posted this here for any one who wants know something that does work and works well...
ok...e.g 10 dolllers where to start
firstly it depends on what type of player you are? question your own abilities and confidence.........
ok so lets take it your a complete novice....but you have played free play poker and did ok so thats why you are here....
ok firstly the obvious enter the freerolls,they are frustrating but hey cost nothing..
then as told to me by others 45ppl sng for 25c great.....
but how to subsidise these tourneys without affecting your br is the trick...!
what i do go on 1c 2c no limit with minimum buyin of 80c,...
yes almost 10 percent of my starting br a risky play to start....
but bare in mind grind your way to 1.05 from 80c and thats a free 45ppl sng at 25c with a 3 doller first prize and top 7 get payed...
so yes if you are confident this does work and can soon build a stack to play at over levels...
so another thing i do lets say we are 17 dollers of our ten.....
its well worth risking say 55c on a big mtt that have some good prizes that if you hit one you will have a great br to play with so bare this in mind but only play one now and again dont go chasing them as ive busted so many time my br just playing them.
hope this helps some of you ....

holdem I'm not saying this to be a smartass,nor to poke you but I just have to ask this as I hope you'll stop to THINK about your answer...

...given the frequency at which you re-load,is this really working for you? Really?
 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:12 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
BTW the reason you are having trouble finding the bankroll management posts is because there is NO LONGER a Bankroll Management thread.

They apparently just want to lump quite possibly the single most important educational aspect of being successful at poker in with everything else. Oh well,given the promotion of lagtard play that they're promoting with the new rake payouts on the ring tables I guess punting BR management advice dovetails perfectly with their objectives.

Guess we can't be cluttering up the new and "improved" Forum with a stand alone thread on BR Management like we had before. Have to have room for important stuff like promo spams and the VIP Lounge.

Just a shameful attitude for a supposed poker school.
 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 07:14 PM
(#5)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 08:56 PM
(#6)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
holdem I'm not saying this to be a smartass,nor to poke you but I just have to ask this as I hope you'll stop to THINK about your answer...

...given the frequency at which you re-load,is this really working for you? Really?
well actually i never had a br management b4 and this is what im doing now and it is working at the moment quite nicely ty
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:50 AM
(#7)
WeaselBasher's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,138
Well I agree with the Original Post. In a way.

I am a Newbie, did ok at Play Money, do ok in pubs/clubs for a £5 game (that is all you can do in one night)

I'm no expert, but learning....

Anyway, back to the OP. Although I don't mind telling you that I started with a large BR of £50 ($78 approx), I only played the weeny 0.02c /0.10/0.25, to start, (still do!!), and not having much success, I thought I would have to stick my neck out and subsidise my losses with playing a 9 seat SNG ($1.50 is the minimum). This is what I have done on Play money the most, and is what I am best at. (still can't pass the SNG Quiz tho lol)

Fortunately, it has worked for me, But, listen, my Bankroll (some would say), is enough to just play the $1.50 SNG. (50 games @$1.50)

So, if there is a game which you feel that it is your strength, or "best game", I say go for it OCCASIONALLY, even if the minimum Buy-In is above you planned schedule. But only if it is affordable to you.

I will also point out that I have lost money on two other sites (really not alot), but decided to start afresh, with more discipline.

If Pokerstars introduce say a 50c 9 Seat SNG, I think it would not only help people like me, but also get them more customers.

I am no Bankroll expert, but read alot on internet, and was inspired by Chris Ferguson.

Last edited by WeaselBasher; Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:54 AM..
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 04:06 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
well actually i never had a br management b4 and this is what im doing now and it is working at the moment quite nicely ty

I think you're OK playing the .25 45 man's holdem,but sitting at 2NL with as low a BR as you have,ESPECIALLY with your tilt issues,is a major BR management leak. You NEED to hear this.

Sitting with .80 cents at 2NL is a bad stack to begin with,so you're IMMEDIATELY making a mistake before you even play a hand. Look you should be doing on of two things at 2NL,either sitting with 100BB's (that means $2.00) or doing the "hit-and-run" play,where you sit down,look for the first reasonable chance to shove,and either bust or take your winnings and run if you hit. This is NOT something that most players would recommend,but there are some players at these levels that make a practice of it,so maybe they have figured out how to make it a viable play for themselves. But .80 is way too much of a starting stack for that strategy,.30 to .40 is much more the norm. (A: more likely to get called,B: less risk if you miss...) As for playing it "straight" you're shorting yourself EVERY TIME you sit with .80 at 2NL. One if you do get a shot to stack someone,you aren't getting the most you could out of the spot. Two,you have weaker fold equity against the table than you would if you were sufficiently stacked.

You have nowhere near the BR you need to do either of these styles holdem and please understand that there ARE regs at 2NL and when they see you constantly sit without a sufficient stack to play correctly they are going to mark you as a fish and exploit you as best they can. Are you running a + BB/100 hands ratio at 2NL,like at least 3BB/100 hands? And over a good sample size (10K hands AT LEAST,and that's a bare minimum...)? If not then you ARE exploitable at even this level. Don't kid yourself. I SUCK on rings and even I understand this.

Until you have at LEAST 25 100BB buy-ins at 2NL ($2.00 per buy-in x 25 = $50.00) you shouldn't even think about trying to grind anything at 2NL. And again,with your tilt issues,you should be much,much more conservative than this.

None of this is probably what you WANT to hear,but it is what you NEED to hear. Slowing down your rate of re-loading (in other words losing more slowly...) is a good first step. But you are far,far away from being consistently profitable yet holdem. That CAN happen for sure,you're in the right place to help have that happen. But being ultra-conservative in your BR management is going to be key in this process until you have found a game,or games,at this level that you KNOW,not think,not guess,KNOW,you can beat over a large sample.

Take this or not. Your choice.
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 04:08 PM
(#9)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeaselBasher View Post
Well I agree with the Original Post. In a way.

I am a Newbie, did ok at Play Money, do ok in pubs/clubs for a £5 game (that is all you can do in one night)

I'm no expert, but learning....

Anyway, back to the OP. Although I don't mind telling you that I started with a large BR of £50 ($78 approx), I only played the weeny 0.02c /0.10/0.25, to start, (still do!!), and not having much success, I thought I would have to stick my neck out and subsidise my losses with playing a 9 seat SNG ($1.50 is the minimum). This is what I have done on Play money the most, and is what I am best at. (still can't pass the SNG Quiz tho lol)

Fortunately, it has worked for me, But, listen, my Bankroll (some would say), is enough to just play the $1.50 SNG. (50 games @$1.50)

So, if there is a game which you feel that it is your strength, or "best game", I say go for it OCCASIONALLY, even if the minimum Buy-In is above you planned schedule. But only if it is affordable to you.

I will also point out that I have lost money on two other sites (really not alot), but decided to start afresh, with more discipline.

If Pokerstars introduce say a 50c 9 Seat SNG, I think it would not only help people like me, but also get them more customers.

I am no Bankroll expert, but read alot on internet, and was inspired by Chris Ferguson.

50 buy-ins for STT's is perfectly reasonable BR management Weasel.

Try e-mailing support as to the .50 STT idea. They DO take customer requests/interests into account sometimes if they see a clamoring for a particular game.

If/when American players get back on here I would love to see non-turbo 45 and 90 man SNG's at the .50 level myself. Also a .25 27 man would be a cool addition I think.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 04:11 PM..
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 04:51 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,800
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
If/when American players get back on here I would love to see non-turbo 45 and 90 man SNG's at the .50 level myself. Also a .25 27 man would be a cool addition I think.
I agree 100%. I'd be in those games too when the US players are able to be back.


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 10:12 PM
(#11)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
I think you're OK playing the .25 45 man's holdem,but sitting at 2NL with as low a BR as you have,ESPECIALLY with your tilt issues,is a major BR management leak. You NEED to hear this.

Sitting with .80 cents at 2NL is a bad stack to begin with,so you're IMMEDIATELY making a mistake before you even play a hand. Look you should be doing on of two things at 2NL,either sitting with 100BB's (that means $2.00) or doing the "hit-and-run" play,where you sit down,look for the first reasonable chance to shove,and either bust or take your winnings and run if you hit. This is NOT something that most players would recommend,but there are some players at these levels that make a practice of it,so maybe they have figured out how to make it a viable play for themselves. But .80 is way too much of a starting stack for that strategy,.30 to .40 is much more the norm. (A: more likely to get called,B: less risk if you miss...) As for playing it "straight" you're shorting yourself EVERY TIME you sit with .80 at 2NL. One if you do get a shot to stack someone,you aren't getting the most you could out of the spot. Two,you have weaker fold equity against the table than you would if you were sufficiently stacked.

You have nowhere near the BR you need to do either of these styles holdem and please understand that there ARE regs at 2NL and when they see you constantly sit without a sufficient stack to play correctly they are going to mark you as a fish and exploit you as best they can. Are you running a + BB/100 hands ratio at 2NL,like at least 3BB/100 hands? And over a good sample size (10K hands AT LEAST,and that's a bare minimum...)? If not then you ARE exploitable at even this level. Don't kid yourself. I SUCK on rings and even I understand this.

Until you have at LEAST 25 100BB buy-ins at 2NL ($2.00 per buy-in x 25 = $50.00) you shouldn't even think about trying to grind anything at 2NL. And again,with your tilt issues,you should be much,much more conservative than this.

None of this is probably what you WANT to hear,but it is what you NEED to hear. Slowing down your rate of re-loading (in other words losing more slowly...) is a good first step. But you are far,far away from being consistently profitable yet holdem. That CAN happen for sure,you're in the right place to help have that happen. But being ultra-conservative in your BR management is going to be key in this process until you have found a game,or games,at this level that you KNOW,not think,not guess,KNOW,you can beat over a large sample.

Take this or not. Your choice.
thx moxi will take your advice and try to stay away from this but i do have to say it has worked for me up until i tilt lol thx
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 11:14 PM
(#12)
john.duce's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Holdems brm wouldn't work for me since I have never made a dime playing cash tables.

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX 2 using Tapatalk
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 11:19 PM
(#13)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by john.duce View Post
Holdems brm wouldn't work for me since I have never made a dime playing cash tables.

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX 2 using Tapatalk

Yeah but that's because you haven't folded JJ since 1984.
 
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Wed Jan 04, 2012, 09:11 PM
(#14)
john.duce's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Lol true dat

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX 2 using Tapatalk
 
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Wed Jan 04, 2012, 09:43 PM
(#15)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Duce you are such a show off man

Cheers,

TC
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 06:53 AM
(#16)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
BronzeStar
I could not agree more with having a 50c non turbo 90 & 45 man sng and it would also be nice to see a 180 man non turbo micro buy in, the 25c are just not worth the time and effort im playing in 10 at a time now just to justify the hours im using up at this level, i will make the final table about 3 times out of the ten games but the silly thing is im actually down in profits more tables less time to play your game proper, on another br note i just jumped in a 27 seater $1.50 sng which is something i used to specialise in on another well known poker site FT, $1.50 is not even in my br range for my current br, but heres the thing the ops seem easier than the 25c sng,s which seem to be filling up with TAGS all the time all having the same game plan.the $1.50 sng,s still get all the any 2 suited cards ops in, so why should i care about br when the field seems alot easier, yes higher risk but higher reward. I have now been stuck on the same br for months, so my plan is go for it broke or a bigger br but better than just being a rake generator, if i go broke im just going add more funds enough to avoid the silly end of the micro stakes, but lets see what happens first.
This plan has fa to do with tilt its a high risk plan to get my br moving again, btw what is tilt i just dont tilt anymore thanks to pso, even though my aces get cracked 9/10 times lol.

Has for my new gameplan......


Last edited by PokerPest72; Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 07:49 AM.. Reason: update
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 12:36 PM
(#17)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Try e-mailing support as to the .50 STT idea. They DO take customer requests/interests into account sometimes if they see a clamoring for a particular game.

If/when American players get back on here I would love to see non-turbo 45 and 90 man SNG's at the .50 level myself. Also a .25 27 man would be a cool addition I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I agree 100%. I'd be in those games too when the US players are able to be back.

And the 20% registration fee will be okay with you guys, will it ?
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 02:42 PM
(#18)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
And the 20% registration fee will be okay with you guys, will it ?
It'll cut into the profits, that's for sure.... but if I can be profitable at them, then I'll give them a go... if not, then will find a better game that I can be more profitable at.


Super-Moderator



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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 05:02 PM
(#19)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
And the 20% registration fee will be okay with you guys, will it ?
I'm not loving it D-man no. Said as much back in June I think it was when Stars first started taking rake in the .10 and .25 games. So yeah I would expect any new games at those levels to take the same,that's the new reality I guess.


For myself I can say that I ran far enough above where the break even point would be with the rake (and thus the smaller payouts) factored in that I would still be solidly profitable in the .25 45 and 90 mans. Yeah it would be a hit but I was well above the margin. Never played under that yoke of course as these changes were instituted after BF.

I DO know that plenty of players that I had/have notes on in these games and were multi-table grinders getting in 25,50 even 100+ of these games a day and running ROI's between +5-+10% WOULD be underwater in them if they are only sustaining the same level they were prior to the changes. I have looked some up who obviously adjusted and are doing well,but others apparently lived in that narrow margin and made their money on sheer volume. They aren't faring as well.
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 07:00 AM
(#20)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
And the 20% registration fee will be okay with you guys, will it ?


I'm ok with this, afterall pokerstars is not a charity

I,d rather do this than face turbo variance

Last edited by PokerPest72; Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 07:09 AM.. Reason: typo
 

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