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JT OESD vs Flop Aggression

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JT OESD vs Flop Aggression - Mon Jan 02, 2012, 01:54 PM
(#1)
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
$0.25 45-man SnG, 14 players left. Everyone folds to me in the CO and I raise to 2.5x hoping to steal the blinds or flop a strong draw. BB is 20/6/11(AF).

My line of thought here was that he had either a big pocket pair or complete air, trying to resteal postflop. At the same time, he bet very quickly after the flop. Why would he throw out a pot-sized bet if he wanted me to call, especially considering how tight I've been playing? I decided to fold though because I didn't want to commit myself to a bloated pot in case I missed the turn. Then again, if I hit my draw, I'd probably get his full stack and take the chip lead. I know there's a flush draw out there, but I think he'd take a different line with a flush draw from what I've seen. The dilemma I'm having here is if I made the correct fold or if I should have chased the straight draw.




Later on the final table this happened. I know that this is a strong candidate for the "worst shove ever" award. Honestly, I don't really know why I shoved, except that I saw that the BB was 84/0/0.62 and somehow thought that he'd call with hands like 72o, which is very unlikely. I know that this was an absolutely horrible play, but I'd still like to get a comment on this one as well, and a spanking.

 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 02:54 PM
(#2)
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
you're playing like your picture:P
Haha, well, I'm still adjusting to tournaments. I've been living off of cash games for the past year exclusively up until now so my play is still a tad (ehum...) too aggressive. These aren't plays I'd normally make which is also why I'm posting them so I can learn from my mistakes.
 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 03:06 PM
(#3)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
This is pretty gross. You flop an open ender but the villain donks pot. Folding is your best option against an unknown. Do you have any reads on him? Have you seen him donk/fold before? Does he always bet pot?

It really looks like he's semi-bluffing with the best hand. He can have a lot of weak hands and draws that are ahead of you. Also, if you call and hit your draw he may not pay you off. Because of this I think you're forced to just choose between shoving and folding, and I lean toward folding. You'll still have 24 BBs, which is plenty to maneuver preflop. Your draw is not strong enough to push without fold equity, so you need to fold. I think most of his draws are strong enough he'll continue, and that's not good for you.

For the K4s hand, I actually think raise/folding would be fine. This guy will never be restealing light, so if he raises you know your hand is toast. Plus, if he calls there are actually a number of decent flops for you. If he's VPIPing 80% then he's missing most flops. Minraise pre, c-bet the flop or turn would probably be my preferred line. Definitely only firing one postflop barrel against this type, since you will be ahead of most misses on the river. (and thus there's no reason to fire the river to get him off Q high.)


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 06:52 PM
(#4)
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
This is pretty gross. You flop an open ender but the villain donks pot. Folding is your best option against an unknown. Do you have any reads on him? Have you seen him donk/fold before? Does he always bet pot?
The thing is that I've only seen this guy get to showdown when he's shoving or calling an all-in shove, or checks all streets if he misses completely. When he actually hits something, he bets it very aggressively. However, he seems to be aware of that and made some tricky plays earlier in the tournament. I suppose he could have aces or kings in this spot since he bet almost immediately after the flop came up, but he could also just be restealing. I haven't seen him in a vs steal situation before so I decided to fold and go with what I know.

Quote:
For the K4s hand, I actually think raise/folding would be fine. This guy will never be restealing light, so if he raises you know your hand is toast. Plus, if he calls there are actually a number of decent flops for you. If he's VPIPing 80% then he's missing most flops. Minraise pre, c-bet the flop or turn would probably be my preferred line. Definitely only firing one postflop barrel against this type, since you will be ahead of most misses on the river. (and thus there's no reason to fire the river to get him off Q high.)
Yeah, definitely. He's also folding 74% of the time to a flop c-bet so that's probably the optimal line to take.
 
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Mon Jan 02, 2012, 08:30 PM
(#5)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
hand#1

for me

good raise in position, you flop OE but opp donks pot size bet

definitely fold

if he's bluffing let him be

you still have 26BB's, just continue to be aggressive and you will win chips risk free

hand#2

with 18bb's, you need to use your stacks effectively, use this as a steal and resteal

steal means use 2.5BB only if you get 3bet you will fold if you get called you cbet then take it from there

you don't have to use 18bb's to steal, 2.5bb is enough to know if your opp got something or not

resteal- if someone to your right whose a stealer in position BTN and CO and they raise 2.5BB constantly that's where you use your all 18BB to win the pot. But you need to make sure that he is a stealer to make this effective and even though you got called you still have outs maybe you get lucky but our play if for the opp to fold.
 

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