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BB pos is this a good resteal 5 players to bubble-$3.5R 180 man sng

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BB pos is this a good resteal 5 players to bubble-$3.5R 180 man sng - Tue Jan 03, 2012, 06:16 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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i know he's stealing

i have read

i believe in it

but 5 players to bubble, if i win this pot risk free i'm definitely in if i just give up I don't know if i'm going to be in the money but still have a good chance

do i need to give up or JAM it in his face



i don't know why'd he called

yes I'm right he's raising light but the problem is I don't have a hand for back up if I get called

but we can't control our opp only ours

so I'm out with nothing

is this wrong play?
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 06:35 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
They put ~20% of their stack in on the steal attempt. Some people have lower commitment thresholds than most players.

You were depending on Fold Equity here and apparently did not have any. If you had played back at this player a few times they might think its time to make a stand or they feel you are overly aggressive from the blinds on steals. But most likely they are just another unaware player that thinks 2 Broadway cards are a ticket to the moon.
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 06:42 PM
(#3)
marvinsytan's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
They put ~20% of their stack in on the steal attempt. Some people have lower commitment thresholds than most players.

You were depending on Fold Equity here and apparently did not have any. If you had played back at this player a few times they might think its time to make a stand or they feel you are overly aggressive from the blinds on steals. But most likely they are just another unaware player that thinks 2 Broadway cards are a ticket to the moon.
in this situation the % doesn't count already because the ave stacks is only 15BB, everybody can just raise 2BB and that's 20% of their stacks already

never played back. I gave him my blind. I just thought now i don't feel like giving up my blinds because i just gave one the last orbit.

or maybe i should have just given up again and wait for open spot to go all in just to be safe

what do you think?

i think i have great fold equity 5 players to bubble i think is good fold equity and my stacks is not that short.

Last edited by marvinsytan; Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:45 PM..
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 06:51 PM
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one question I'd have is.... How many steal attempts or BB defends had you done in say the last 5-10 orbits at this table? Also, how many hands were you involved in?

If the answer is a medium to high number or you had shown down a couple of non-premium hands, the opp could think that you're making a move (which you were)... and would therefore call you down with less of a hand.

If that was the case and I think the opp is doing this light... it can be worth calling with Q10.


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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 06:53 PM
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Also, if the opp was playing tighter, then I'd definitely be folding here. Reads there would mean a bunch too. Also, just because you know the opp is stealing, if you don't have enough equity with the cards that you are dealt.... there isn't anything you can do about it and need to fold until you do get cards that can give you a better equity against the opponent.


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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 06:59 PM
(#6)
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When I was starting out in poker way back when, I began by assuming other players would act the way I would. This got me into a lot of trouble as one can imagine. Over time I learned to categorize my opponents somewhat and I became better able to predict (and exploit!) their responses. Over time I added more categories and refined my play further.

It sounds to me as if you may be classifying opponents too generically.

Lastly, bad players make bad decisions and this may be one of those situations.
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:00 PM
(#7)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
one question I'd have is.... How many steal attempts or BB defends had you done in say the last 5-10 orbits at this table? Also, how many hands were you involved in?

If the answer is a medium to high number or you had shown down a couple of non-premium hands, the opp could think that you're making a move (which you were)... and would therefore call you down with less of a hand.

If that was the case and I think the opp is doing this light... it can be worth calling with Q10.
yeah maybe he saw me won a pot w K3o BTN tryng to steal

but never played back at him yet this is the first time

but im stealing at least one per orbit and got called once I'm definitely behind but got lucky

he's aggressive also in steal position

yeah maybe i just don't enough back up hand, should have done this with Ax.

out again near the money, how many times this should happen before i learned my lesson
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:06 PM
(#8)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
When I was starting out in poker way back when, I began by assuming other players would act the way I would. This got me into a lot of trouble as one can imagine. Over time I learned to categorize my opponents somewhat and I became better able to predict (and exploit!) their responses. Over time I added more categories and refined my play further.

It sounds to me as if you may be classifying opponents too generically.

Lastly, bad players make bad decisions and this may be one of those situations.
maybe your right, maybe i was thinking the way i would do if i got shove all in by the BB if i try to steal, I would definitely fold but not my opp

your right every person plays differently, that's where i should go in doing something risky like my tournament life.

this is good

lessons learned
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:08 PM
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If they saw you get caught stealing and you were doing it often (once/orbit is higher than normal), that definitely will get an opp to call with much less. It also doesn't matter that you haven't played back at this particular opponent... if they're smart, they're watching every player at the table when they play against anyone, not just someone that plays against them.
You should be watching every hand by every player at your table and noting every little thing that they do... raises, 3-bets, cards they show, etc. Anything to get additional info about an opponent.

Your hand of 78o has 45% equity vs a random hand. If the opp thinks you'll steal with ATC, then the opp's Q 10 has 57% equity.

This makes it a +EV play for the opponent here to call.


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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:08 PM
(#10)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Also, if the opp was playing tighter, then I'd definitely be folding here. Reads there would mean a bunch too. Also, just because you know the opp is stealing, if you don't have enough equity with the cards that you are dealt.... there isn't anything you can do about it and need to fold until you do get cards that can give you a better equity against the opponent.

maybe i was hoping for him to fold too much

and never think what if he called im so behind

maybe need to resteal with minimum Kx
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:14 PM
(#11)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
If they saw you get caught stealing and you were doing it often (once/orbit is higher than normal), that definitely will get an opp to call with much less. It also doesn't matter that you haven't played back at this particular opponent... if they're smart, they're watching every player at the table when they play against anyone, not just someone that plays against them.
You should be watching every hand by every player at your table and noting every little thing that they do... raises, 3-bets, cards they show, etc. Anything to get additional info about an opponent.

Your hand of 78o has 45% equity vs a random hand. If the opp thinks you'll steal with ATC, then the opp's Q 10 has 57% equity.

This makes it a +EV play for the opponent here to call.

understood
 
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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:15 PM
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you CAN resteal with less.... but I think you might want to look at the frequency you try steals or resteals. I think you're doing it a bit too often, which will get you called down with less and less from the opp.
If you don't have a tighter table image and are involved in less hands, these will not work as often due to the opps calling you down with less. To get players to fold more often with these, table image is everything.

Also, remember that in this, like in other standard tourneys, there are players that are regulars... and will use any info they gained from seeing you in other tourneys or on other days too... not just the one you're in now. Other players take notes, etc, too.

I don't know what the opp's view of your plays was, but this is something you need to look at too.


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Tue Jan 03, 2012, 07:26 PM
(#13)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
you CAN resteal with less.... but I think you might want to look at the frequency you try steals or resteals. I think you're doing it a bit too often, which will get you called down with less and less from the opp.
If you don't have a tighter table image and are involved in less hands, these will not work as often due to the opps calling you down with less. To get players to fold more often with these, table image is everything.

Also, remember that in this, like in other standard tourneys, there are players that are regulars... and will use any info they gained from seeing you in other tourneys or on other days too... not just the one you're in now. Other players take notes, etc, too.

I don't know what the opp's view of your plays was, but this is something you need to look at too.
yes your right, probably he already saw me play and he knew im capable of 3bet shoving in the BB with any 2.

definitely gotta look who's my opp first before doing something risky near the bubble

lessons learned
 

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