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folded my set to a donk riverbet-big$11

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folded my set to a donk riverbet-big$11 - Thu Jan 05, 2012, 02:55 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

good fold or not?

what is he check/calling then C/R the Turn

wrong title sorry

Last edited by marvinsytan; Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 02:58 PM..
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 02:29 AM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,481
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Hi Marvin,

His line looks like he made a flush, but by min-raising he's actually giving you proper odds to call. You have to call 450 into a pot of 2250 so you're getting immediate odds of 5-1. With 10 outs to a full house or quads, you're 3.6-1 to improve to the best hand. So you can call this even if you never win the hand when you don't improve. And when you do improve it is likely you will get the rest of the money in as he'll have a hard time folding a flush. So personally I would call.


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 03:22 AM
(#3)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Even if he has a straight or flush you have pretty good equity. I think you may actually want to check the turn back since it's such a scary card and you don't want to get check-raised by like . I think I'd check back the turn and call a river bet. If he checks the river too, I'd bet for value, since he's probably not trying to check/raise a made flush twice.

Also, when he check/raises you you ARE getting the right price to draw. And while it puts a lot of your stack in, you're almost guaranteed to get paid off on the river if you spike. And at this point you can fold to a river shove.


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 12:07 PM
(#4)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
i quickly muck i forgot that i have lots of outs to improve

forgot also that the min raise part give me a chance to call because it it not expensive and i can stack him off if i hit

saw he made his hands i instafold - mistake

lessons learned - thank you sir
 
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Don't Fold! - Fri Jan 06, 2012, 12:52 PM
(#5)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
good fold or not?

what is he check/calling then C/R the Turn
We don’t have any reads in this post. But, regardless of reads, I’m usually playing the hand as outlined below. There are exceptions: If this hand played out against a ‘Mercier’ type player, I may be compelled to call his turn check/raise, and put my chips in on his river shove (but, Mercier might have check/shoved the turn). We are playing a shorter stack than most in this tourney, and over aggressive players make these plays. That’s why they often get paid off on their monsters; it’s the perks of the LAG style, it generates big payoffs for big hands. On the flip side, we should understand that they want to build a big stack early. A big stack is a vital weapon for a good LAG, and they will be willing to force you off hands like this by intimidating you with big bets and stack threatening shoves.

As played, I like the way the hand played out up to (but not including) the point that you folded. As pointed out, you are getting great pot odds, and the pot is set up to take his remaining chips, if you hit your ‘boat’. The risk/reward factor is too great to fold! Adding to that, you may have the best hand, and the villain may not continue his aggression on the river. Sometimes a (seemingly) pot committing raise, such as the villains, could just be a semi-bluff that wants you to think he’s pot committed. If you miss the river and villain shoves… say ‘nice hand, sir’, and fold.

An alternate way of playing this hand was posted, and I concur – after the villain was willing to check/call the flop, a pot control line is a good option. A scare card just arrived on the turn, and you really want to get your hand to showdown. By checking the turn, you are guaranteed of being able to call a normal sized river donk. And, if he doesn’t bet, it is more likely that you can NOW get a second street of value out of the villain. A second street of value, that you might not have gotten on a continued turn bet.
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 12:59 PM
(#6)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by king_spadez1 View Post
We don’t have any reads in this post. But, regardless of reads, I’m usually playing the hand as outlined below. There are exceptions: If this hand played out against a ‘Mercier’ type player, I may be compelled to call his turn check/raise, and put my chips in on his river shove (but, Mercier might have check/shoved the turn). We are playing a shorter stack than most in this tourney, and over aggressive players make these plays. That’s why they often get paid off on their monsters; it’s the perks of the LAG style, it generates big payoffs for big hands. On the flip side, we should understand that they want to build a big stack early. A big stack is a vital weapon for a good LAG, and they will be willing to force you off hands like this by intimidating you with big bets and stack threatening shoves.

As played, I like the way the hand played out up to (but not including) the point that you folded. As pointed out, you are getting great pot odds, and the pot is set up to take his remaining chips, if you hit your ‘boat’. The risk/reward factor is too great to fold! Adding to that, you may have the best hand, and the villain may not continue his aggression on the river. Sometimes a (seemingly) pot committing raise, such as the villains, could just be a semi-bluff that wants you to think he’s pot committed. If you miss the river and villain shoves… say ‘nice hand, sir’, and fold.

An alternate way of playing this hand was posted, and I concur – after the villain was willing to check/call the flop, a pot control line is a good option. A scare card just arrived on the turn, and you really want to get your hand to showdown. By checking the turn, you are guaranteed of being able to call a normal sized river donk. And, if he doesn’t bet, it is more likely that you can NOW get a second street of value out of the villain. A second street of value, that you might not have gotten on a continued turn bet.
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well played sir

good analysis

i will note this one for the next situation that may arises
 

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