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i like open shoving in the BTN-big11

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i like open shoving in the BTN-big11 - Thu Jan 05, 2012, 03:37 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
i got 15BB it's open i shove any 2

why?

if they all fold 15% add to my stacks risk free

if they call very rare like these happened

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

if i lose I'm bound to lose anyway so no worries

at least im fighting
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 03:47 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Mindlessly open shoving ATC on 5bb is a mistake (not a typo, doing it on 5bb is bad, 15bb is worse). You need to look at the blinds' calling ranges first, and then compare your equity vs. that range to the odds you're giving yourself if you're called.

Betting t1800 to win t180 is usually very bad.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 03:53 PM..
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 03:48 PM
(#3)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

when everyone's showing weakness pretend that your strong

if they fold you chip up by 35% if they call and you lose at least you tried
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 03:49 PM
(#4)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Mindlessly open shoving ATC on 5bb is a mistake. You need to look at the blinds' calling ranges first, and then compare your equity vs. that range to the odds you're giving yourself if you're called.

Betting t1800 to win t180 is usually very bad.
im winning 315 here with the antes
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 03:55 PM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
im winning 315 here with the antes
You're right, I missed that. It's still too small of a pot, though. If the blinds are super-tight, then it's maybe okay, but in that case, you can just open for a smaller amount and they'll fold just the same. If they're loose and will call you with bad hands like A2, then even though they're bad, you're the one making the losing play. Watching their calling ranges is very important.
 
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Thu Jan 05, 2012, 04:05 PM
(#6)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
You're right, I missed that. It's still too small of a pot, though. If the blinds are super-tight, then it's maybe okay, but in that case, you can just open for a smaller amount and they'll fold just the same. If they're loose and will call you with bad hands like A2, then even though they're bad, you're the one making the losing play. Watching their calling ranges is very important.
i dont like raising if i only got 15BB BTN if i got around 20BB i would raise because if my opp reraised me i definitely have to fold
pos
i like to open shove so that they will not have the opportunity to bluff me and the only time they will have the guts to call if they have premium which is rare so for me it's better to gamble and lose it all here.

as always i want to win chips risk free and as much as possible i don't like to put chips in the middle that i can't protect

Last edited by marvinsytan; Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 04:08 PM..
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 02:53 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Hi Martin,

The Q6 hand is a little light for 15 bb's imo, but I like the thought process of taking an aggressive action (it just may be too aggressive in this spot). IF the blinds are tight defenders then you can steal by just raising small like Panicky said. What he's getting at is nitty blinds don't defend anyway (you mentioned not wanting to get bluffed, super tight guys won't bluff you so it's no concern). In other words super tight guys will still fold to the small raise just as much as to the shove, so you get the desired result just as often, but now when one of them wakes up with a real hand you can get away and still have 13 bb's left to work with.

NORMALLY raise/folding on a 15 bb stack is a spew, but there are exceptions and super tight blind defenders fall into that category. Against normal players, I'd just pass the Q6, it's a little to thin for me.

Dave


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 03:48 PM
(#8)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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There is nothing wrong with raise/folding in and of itself. This is a spot where I really like it if you have a read that the blinds are tight and unlikely to resteal. You have a totally worthless hand that you have no problem folding to a shove. The issue comes with hands that usually have good equity. Hands like KTs, QTs, A9, KQ, T9s, 66, etc. These are the kinds of hands you'd prefer to just shove since even if called you usually have a lot of equity, while raise/folding is bad because you have so much equity and are often getting near the right price.

This doesn't mean raise/fold every time with trash. But from time to time you may find a situation where you can raise to steal the blinds, feeling perfectly comfortable folding to a 3-bet.

Of course you should probably balance your range. Try opening on this 11-20 BB stack with like QQ+ and trash, and jamming your broadways, small-mid pairs and your suited stuff. You should also jam your monsters some of the time (particularly if you've been jamming a few hands in a row as the small raise looks really suspicious). Also, you should really consider lowering your open raises down to like 2.5 x or smaller. Once antes are in play I've generally lowered it down to a minraise. But again it depends on the opponents.


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 04:09 PM
(#9)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
this is a good topic about raising

2.5BB or 3BB

till when

what blind you change your raise

i try to lower my raise to 2.5 when it is around 500/1000 because i like to steal so much that i dont want the BB to come in and when i have a good hand im having a good pot after the flop
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 04:52 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
this is a good topic about raising

2.5BB or 3BB

till when

what blind you change your raise

i try to lower my raise to 2.5 when it is around 500/1000 because i like to steal so much that i dont want the BB to come in and when i have a good hand im having a good pot after the flop
Marvin,

I try to change from 3BB to 2.5BB at either 100/200, 150/300 or 200/400 level, depening on the stack sizes and more than the stack sizes, the tourney format. In a 15+ min level tourney, I'll change sooner than if I'm playing a turbo. When I do change, then I try to stay conistant from that point forward in the tourney.
Exactly when you lower it, or what you lower it to are personal preferences and should be based also on your style of play.

John (JWK24)


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