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calling allin with a weak ace - good or bad in this case?

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calling allin with a weak ace - good or bad in this case? - Fri Jan 06, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Hand #41 in a 27 player $1.50 SnG. Blinds at 50/100 so I have about 18BB going into the hand. There's 12 players left and I'm 9th in chips. Top 5 get paid.



So - I'm UTG with AT off. The table is 5 handed, so assuming I can get the CO or button to fold, I'll be in position on the blinds, so I raise 2.5 BB. SB calls, BB folds and an Ace flops. Not a clue what the SB has, but he min-bets giving me 7-to-1 odds on a call. However, I don't have a clue what he's donking into me with, which leaves a nasty decision if he decides to make a bigger bet on the turn. Conclusion: I raise, he calls. So either he has an ace as well, or maybe he's drawing to the straight or the club flush.
The turn is a complete blank, discarding the diamond flush draw that comes up. He bets enough to set me allin.

Now up to here I think the play was fairly standard (or am I wrong there?).

Now I didn't think much and just hit the call button. I'd pretty much decided when I raised his flop bet I was gonna stick with this hand, keeping my stacksize in mind. Fortunately I hit my 3 outer on the river, but you gotta do that sometimes. Looking back, I wonder if I should have called. Sure, he could be doing this with a strong draw to push me off an ace (straight/flush draw would give him 8, 9 or 15 outs), a weaker ace (giving him 3 outs), or a better ace (giving me 3 outs - 2 if he's holding 2 clubs or 2 diamonds...). The weaker ace is not part of the package I think, so best case scenario is he's got about a 1/6 shot of hitting the winner, worst case scenario is I have a 1/16 chance of hitting. This would I think make it not a good move to call off my chips.

On the other hand, by this time I have 12.5 BB left, and we're nowhere near the money. But - does my low stack behind justify the call here?

catch up on my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com

Last edited by Ov3rsight; Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 10:44 AM..
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Since: Jun 2010
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UTG- ATo Personally I'm Throwing it away pre-flop.

That said you did raise not just limp which is good. When you get called what is your plan. You really need to know before the cards come down what your play is.

What range of cards do you put him on (you said you hand no clue) was he playing lots of cards or hardly any? If lots then i guess it's OK to think we might be ahead, but after he donks into us you have to think he hit something.

We have Top pair and ok kicker. give up spot number 2 right here, if your thinking your get it all in anyway then shove pre-flop and give him some scary minutes trying to work out what you have.

Grade b


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 02:33 PM
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*** moved to more appropriate forum since member has questions on a given hand JWK24***


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 03:33 PM
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marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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i will definitely play the same way as you did

good raise PRE trying to take down the pot SB called

you flopped TPMK for me it's good enough

SB donks a very weird bet showing weakness and I like your raise and in this point there is no turning back

i think your opp hide his hand properly i will never put him in AK i thought A but lower kicker than yours but he also played it perfectly just for you because he trapped you well just got unlucky
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 03:46 PM
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whu1895's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ov3rsight View Post
Hand #41 in a 27 player $1.50 SnG. Blinds at 50/100 so I have about 18BB going into the hand. There's 12 players left and I'm 9th in chips. Top 5 get paid.



So - I'm UTG with AT off. The table is 5 handed, so assuming I can get the CO or button to fold, I'll be in position on the blinds, so I raise 2.5 BB. SB calls, BB folds and an Ace flops. Not a clue what the SB has, but he min-bets giving me 7-to-1 odds on a call. However, I don't have a clue what he's donking into me with, which leaves a nasty decision if he decides to make a bigger bet on the turn. Conclusion: I raise, he calls. So either he has an ace as well, or maybe he's drawing to the straight or the club flush.
The turn is a complete blank, discarding the diamond flush draw that comes up. He bets enough to set me allin.

Now up to here I think the play was fairly standard (or am I wrong there?).

Now I didn't think much and just hit the call button. I'd pretty much decided when I raised his flop bet I was gonna stick with this hand, keeping my stacksize in mind. Fortunately I hit my 3 outer on the river, but you gotta do that sometimes. Looking back, I wonder if I should have called. Sure, he could be doing this with a strong draw to push me off an ace (straight/flush draw would give him 8, 9 or 15 outs), a weaker ace (giving him 3 outs), or a better ace (giving me 3 outs - 2 if he's holding 2 clubs or 2 diamonds...). The weaker ace is not part of the package I think, so best case scenario is he's got about a 1/6 shot of hitting the winner, worst case scenario is I have a 1/16 chance of hitting. This would I think make it not a good move to call off my chips.

On the other hand, by this time I have 12.5 BB left, and we're nowhere near the money. But - does my low stack behind justify the call here?

catch up on my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
ok a 10 pre flop fold or raise ,defo fold no point ,by the turn u have 2 evaluate ur kicker , cos thats wat its gonna come down ,unlucky yeah ,but a 10 ,fold it ,gl all the best
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 04:02 PM
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Ov3rsight,

Thanks for posting the hand.

Preflop: I like the std raise here that you make from UTG. Making the std opening raise helps to conceal your hand, which is a good thing because most likely, you're going to be playing the hand out of position. It's a bonus when only the SB calls, as now we get to play the rest of the hand IN position.

Flop: top pair, but there is a flush and straight draw available. The SB leads into us for a very small bet of 100. This to me looks like some type of blocking bet and that normally happens with a player on a draw or 2nd/3rd pair or a small pocket pair.
I like the idea of raising here, to get value from top pair, but what I would look at is to make a bet large enough to price out the draws (make calling a -EV play for the opp). An OESD if they have that, is 8 outs, a flush draw is 9 outs and there is one combo draw (J10 cl) with 15 outs.
To price out the opponent, the bet needs to be so that the opp has to put in a higher % of the pot than they have in equity (32% for the straight or 36% for the flush). In this case, I try to make a 2/3-3/4 pot raise.
I'd raise here to 600, but there is one other thing to consider.... at what point are we committed to the pot? This point is normally hit when you put 1/3 of your chips into the pot. If I bet 600 here, that IS over 1/3 of the remaining stack. Due to this, you're basically committed to putting the rest of your stack into the pot if you bet.... so I'm shoving right here.
Shoving here also will maximize any fold equity that you have in the hand also. If the opp calls, I have top pair and other runner/runner draws, or a draw at trips or two pair... IF I'm behind, so I have outs. If the opp folds, then you gain an extra 700 to your stack without a fight (43.6% of your stack).

The opp in this case did have a larger ace, but the 10 on the river is one of the outs to A 10.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables

John (JWK24)


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