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how to play this hand TT - big 11

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how to play this hand TT - big 11 - Fri Jan 06, 2012, 02:27 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
i really want to raise PRE but the problem is i just lost 2 pots and my chips is going down as of the moment so i just check it

flop i have OP so i raised one opp called

turn made flush if he was on draw, i checked for pot control and hoping for a showdown

river another bad card for me so i just give up

is this correct?

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 02:38 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I like the preflop call, and I like the flop bet, although I'd prefer a bigger bet to make getting it in easier for you here. I think your tens are good, because if the PFR had a hand, he would almost certainly bet the flop to protect it and to get value from draws. If the other villain had a hand, he would have probably checkraised the flop. So on the turn, I think you're good the majority of the time.

I'd have bet the turn and shoved the river. Also, I can easily see the villain betting something like ace-high on the river, trying to bluff you off. Your line makes it look like you have a marginal hand, so I think the river bet is a definite call.
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 02:59 PM
(#3)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
I like the preflop call, and I like the flop bet, although I'd prefer a bigger bet to make getting it in easier for you here. I think your tens are good, because if the PFR had a hand, he would almost certainly bet the flop to protect it and to get value from draws. If the other villain had a hand, he would have probably checkraised the flop. So on the turn, I think you're good the majority of the time.

I'd have bet the turn and shoved the river. Also, I can easily see the villain betting something like ace-high on the river, trying to bluff you off. Your line makes it look like you have a marginal hand, so I think the river bet is a definite call.
you think im good here

i really doubt it he's on the BB he can have any 4 or 5 or flush i dont think he's betting A high on the river here considering i bet the flop.

what is he calling the flop bet? it's a 4 or a 5 or a FD this is what i think he's calling my flop bet for - i dont think he will call any 2 overcard to my flop bet im sure he have something
 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 05:03 PM
(#4)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Depends. He may be the BB, but he did have to put in chips. What 4 would he have to call the preflop raise and the caller with? I know if I would have A4 in that spot I'd have mucked em and waited for a better time. The A4 in the BB would basically be calling to hit 2 pair, since 1 pair is unlikely to be good, whether he hits his A or his 4. So I don't think he has a 4. Pretty much the same logic applies to a 5. Which leaves a big ace, or a pocket pair. In the latter case, probably lower than yours, I imagine he would have made a 3-bet to eliminate some of the competition. Big pairs are nice but not against too many opponents.

So bet the flop, get called, turn is the flush card. Now it's possible he had a flush draw, but that means Ax of hearts, and the odds of that isn't too good. If he had a pair, he doesn't have the flush. So I'd definitely be betting the turn, because if he doesn't have the flush, he might be afraid of one. He might call a turn bet with an overpair, but if you shove the river... Unlikely the river improved his hand since I don't think he had a 4.


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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 11:40 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Marvin,

I too prefer a call preflop on this depth of money with position unless villain reads dictate a 3b is more in order (no reads given).

I like the flop bet when checked to, you can get value from worse pairs and from draws in this spot.

On the turn I think checking back is ok for the reasons you stated, but another viable line would be to bet/fold. Bet again for value which you can still get from pocket pairs or hands like A3 that peeled once and now turned a flush draw. Most opponents if they check-raise the turn here will have you beat so that's why I like a bet/fold line too.

As played the river is interesting. The break even point on this call is exactly 33% so if you think you're winning more than 1/3rd of the time then the call is +EV. I think it's actually probably pretty close. He can have some bluffs here (which we induce by checking back the turn) and some worse value hands (like 88 that he now thinks is good... not that he should but people bet stuff like this all the time). When a spot is close, I like to choose the action that if wrong, is the smallest mistake. Calling with the worst hand and losing 465 more chips is a smaller mistake than folding the best hand in a 1395 chip pot. This combined with the fact that we checked back the turn which may induce a few more bluffs, and I think I would call. Ultimately though it's probably a close spot (fairly close to EV neutral).

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Fri Jan 06, 2012, 11:45 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ov3rsight View Post
Depends. He may be the BB, but he did have to put in chips. What 4 would he have to call the preflop raise and the caller with? I know if I would have A4 in that spot I'd have mucked em and waited for a better time. The A4 in the BB would basically be calling to hit 2 pair, since 1 pair is unlikely to be good, whether he hits his A or his 4. So I don't think he has a 4. Pretty much the same logic applies to a 5. Which leaves a big ace, or a pocket pair. In the latter case, probably lower than yours, I imagine he would have made a 3-bet to eliminate some of the competition. Big pairs are nice but not against too many opponents.

So bet the flop, get called, turn is the flush card. Now it's possible he had a flush draw, but that means Ax of hearts, and the odds of that isn't too good. If he had a pair, he doesn't have the flush. So I'd definitely be betting the turn, because if he doesn't have the flush, he might be afraid of one. He might call a turn bet with an overpair, but if you shove the river... Unlikely the river improved his hand since I don't think he had a 4.
Hi Ov3rsight,

One thing I would caution about, is assuming that the villain will play like you do. Actually we're given no info or reads on this villain, but just because you wouldn't call the raise preflop with A4 or A5, or with 2 hearts that didn't include the Ace, doesn't mean that this player wouldn't. In fact some others wouldn't but many would (right or wrong). So I don't think we can automatically exclude some of these hands from his range. (It's one of the reason reads and info on our opponents is so important, so we can make better educated guesses about their ranges in spots like this.)

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:11 AM
(#7)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
i need to use the bet/fold line sometimes

lesson learned
 

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