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Restricting the skill league

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Restricting the skill league - Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:57 AM
(#1)
bobber93's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
BronzeStar
Right then, just wanted to raise the topic of restricting the open league to players who are actually in this for the points and prizes, been knocked out of the open league 3 times this week by freeroll junkies who dont care if they lose or not so just play any 2 cards and hope to hit, which they generally do.
I surely cant be the only one whos had enough to trying to play a decent game and improve, who has then been sent to the rail early by a 78 off all in which has miracled a 2 pair or a straight against the pocket kings we waited so patiently for.
I for one reckon it should be the rule of, if your not involved with the poker school online, you dont play in the open league
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 09:34 AM
(#2)
electrux_hcb's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
I agree, especially as there are the astronomer freerolls, the open is not the only freeroll available. I have still entered a few opens even tho im qualified for the PSL, just to test a few things out really, such as how high you finish sitting out the entire tourney. I must confess I did go into Russian mode on one yesterday, but that didn't get me anywhere except an early bust. Cant beat a Russian at their own game.
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 09:49 AM
(#3)
SkinyButPhat's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 258
ChromeStar
i agree, I have have to change to the way I play these to mostly using time bank and the clock and rarely calling or raising, just to make it 1441st.

It is annoying that over 70% of those playing are not even in the Open League.

Having said that, I have made some late calls, and been able to double, then triple, then quintuple up and make a run deep to the top 200 and beyond, but wouldbe nice to move back to a more aggressive style of play an actually build up a stack without fear of being busted and havingnegative points applied to my score.

Peace

Deaner
 
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cjroc - Sat Jan 07, 2012, 10:03 AM
(#4)
cjrocknroll's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 34
I 100 percent agree im also sick of the freeroll donks calling with anthing and cracking my aces etc I just use the time and dont play for hour because u cant with them freeroll clowns the league should be just for people who have made at least 20vpp till they change this the league will just be known as a joke league wich is at the moment.

Last edited by cjrocknroll; Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 10:06 AM.. Reason: spelling mistake
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 12:15 PM
(#5)
wetmoose 613's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 434
ChromeStar
correct me if i m wrong ,but 1441st puts you around +30 points. do that 10 times or so in a month and your moving on up. i m no great player but i figured out in the first month how to do that with 10k entrants in less than 5 minutes and most wanted that prem league ticket! Adapt or diea slow death!

gl y all
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 12:52 PM
(#6)
whu1895's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 110
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjrocknroll View Post
I 100 percent agree im also sick of the freeroll donks calling with anthing and cracking my aces etc I just use the time and dont play for hour because u cant with them freeroll clowns the league should be just for people who have made at least 20vpp till they change this the league will just be known as a joke league wich is at the moment.
yup i agree , apart from the have 20vpp,as i struggle to make this sometimes ie dont play enough no more ,but having been in the prem last year ,is a nice change from said skill league ,lot better players 2 mix it up with ,so gl all the best in gettin there folks
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 09:19 AM
(#7)
bobber93's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
BronzeStar
cant be so hard to password protect the tournyments, just put the password up on the forum. if your part of the school you log on and check for the password... that or change the name to open shove league
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 04:43 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
This subject has been broached on almost a monthly basis since the inception of the original PSO Skill League in July 2010,and THAT league had the entries to each individual tournament capped at 1500. So as an American who hasn't had the pleasure of playing in the new Open League yet (and trust me,at this point ALL American players would consider it a pleasure...) I can only sympathize with your frustrations from the sideline. But I would like to give some grist for the other side of this argument if I may...

Yeah the pure free-rolling penny-chasing ATC-shipping monkeys can be a pain in the keister,but there are two essential truths that apply to them in these League games that translate to every other games you may play on this site.

1. They are EVERYWHERE. Any game,at any buy-in level you will ever play on this site has these type of players in them. Yes,they start to thin out as the commitment required to register in any individual game rises,but make no mistake---they are still there.

2. As number one is just the simple reality of the situation it's incumbent on YOU,the player,to best learn how to deal with these type of players. To learn when it's most advantageous to what YOUR objectives are in a given setting and when it's + and -EV to take these jokers on.



The main things that PSO League games can teach you are patience,when to use selective max-aggression and perhaps most importantly just how cruel and seemingly unjust this crazy game can be.

Yes,we all want to get that brass ring at the end of the month,or at least come as close as possible,and it can be infuriating when some neo-maxi zoom dweebie who has no care and less sense takes a big dump on your plans by cracking you set of Kings with their 4 on the felt flush after they shipped 82o. But it IS going to happen elsewhere and it's best that you get to learn how to cope with this in a freeroll that actually CAN replicate the pressure of being deep in a cash MTT.

And I know for a fact,from firsthand experience that these tournies can and do replicate that pressure. People who have no understanding of the leagues scoff at this notion but I'm with you guys and gals. I get it. The investment,in time,effort and yes,emotions,of a month long chase for something can be condensed down to a few precious hands at the end of that month and that kind of pressure is going to be a great teacher and training device for all of you moving forward.

I've been there,done that. Took 2nd for the month in August 2010,won $1000 and while I was pleased and proud of my play the last week,with all that pressure to perform EVERY time I loaded a PSO up (never mind agonizing over whether I SHOULD load up a particular tourney or sit),I also came away from the experience with plenty of hands and spots where I was able to second guess and analyze my play afterwards to see if there were spots where I could have done better and maybe taken the month down. And there were more than a few of these,of course. And THAT helped me grow my game. And this IS a league in a SCHOOL first and foremost. Please try to keep that in mind.

And here is where the league games,if you do get in position for a finish at the end that means something to you,whether it's trying for a top 10 spot or just grinding out a couple bucks that could help you on your way here...get in that spot and the pressure is there from the very FIRST hand that you play each time you load a League game up. While that's not necessarily unique to the Leagues it isn't something that's exactly common either.

Look,at the end of the day they aren't going to capitulate to this request in my opinion for the same reason I always said they wouldn't in the old league...Stars isn't going to do something that sets it up for LESS people to play in something. Every one of those 10,000 spots is filled by a potential customer. Someone who could bink just 2 cents even,take that and enter a .02 Hyper-Turbo,bomb out but get bitten by the bug and end up depositing. Stars would be rather dense to limit the chances of this happening,don't you think?

So suck it up,do your best and learn one invaluable truth that will serve you well moving forward...

...it's a lot easier to take chips from a fish than it is to take them from a shark.

Good luck to all,hope to see you in the trenches sooner than later.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Mon Jan 09, 2012 at 04:47 PM..
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 04:56 PM
(#9)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
...it's a lot easier to take chips from a fish than it is to take them from a shark.

Good luck to all,hope to see you in the trenches sooner than later.

but there are so manyyyyyyy ....................
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 05:23 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Django66 View Post
but there are so manyyyyyyy ....................

I hear ya Django.

But for myself,look I know I have a lot to learn and a long way to go as a player. But one of the diamond bullet to the forehead moments of clarity I had to get me as far along as I am now is when,as it pertained to donks,ATC-shoving monkeys,calling stations and whatever else,my thinking went from "there are so many of them" to "there can never be enough of them".
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 05:29 PM
(#11)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
"there can never be enough of them".

def +1, let's hope for the US to come back soon.
 
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Wed Jan 11, 2012, 06:53 AM
(#12)
Thanat0s666's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 223
BronzeStar
I like the format of the Open League, that is the same for years, and probably will continue being the same for more years. Logically, it is not poker, but to win money is the best format, the people who really is good playing this format always are in the top of the leaderboard, in september i finished 4th and I won 500$, very near (less than 2 points) of the 3th position and very near from the leader, and now i'm in the 2th position. Is very easy be in the top playing this format, is more easy to gain money in this format than in the format of the Premier League.

In the Premier League also there are a lot of donks, to advance to the Premier League is sufficient finishing in the first 500 places of the Open League, and only 25 of these 500 players are top players, the other 475 players are pure donks.

Then, maybe in the Premier League you will find more top players per table, but the donks will be majority, and finally the only way to win something in the Premier League is playing as a donk.

If really you want win money playing the poker league, this format is the best to get it, any other format will be more difficult.

=)
 
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Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:31 AM
(#13)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
I hear ya Django.

But for myself,look I know I have a lot to learn and a long way to go as a player. But one of the diamond bullet to the forehead moments of clarity I had to get me as far along as I am now is when,as it pertained to donks,ATC-shoving monkeys,calling stations and whatever else,my thinking went from "there are so many of them" to "there can never be enough of them".
The more the merrier I say

So your Aces get cracked by 82os with a 4 board flush 1 in five times lol
So you get a negative score
Build a bridge , get over it
But the other 4 out of 5 times they stand up , double you up and get you into positive points
The 4 positive points haul greatly outweigh the negative points
So all I can say is: Bring 'em on ,It's Showtime
 
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Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:54 AM
(#14)
EasyChips4U's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 762
Moxie... My Man!!!

I so very much enjoy reading ur posts...

U just make soooo much sense...

this forum would be lost widout u... and many others...

"NOT" gonna put any pressure on myself to name them all... everyone loyal to these threads already know "who" they r...

Last edited by EasyChips4U; Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 09:00 AM.. Reason: typo
 
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Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:51 PM
(#15)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Thanks guys.

Look,when I first found my way,quite by accident,to real money play here on Stars I had every misconception and/or prejudice against on-line poker as any "it's rigged" monger who has ever posted here. And the first 5-6 weeks I played on line did nothing to dissuade me on feeling that way.

THEN I lucked up and found PSO (don't really recall how or why,probably tilting like a certain tower in Pisa had something to do with it...). And THAT day was the best hand I will ever be dealt in my poker life. PERIOD.

Played the league a few games,as a penny-chasing,ATC donk quite frankly,once I had a stack I settled down and played. Then like my 5th or 6th game I binked a 5th place finish,won around a $1.30 I think,and that's all I was really in it for. But at the FT there were 2 players,one whom I can't remember his ID but the other was a definite reprobate like myself---Jarhead8286 (Hey Slushy Pup)--and these 2 were talking about the leaderboard. Had no clue what that meant,didn't bother to look into it.

Then after straight donking like 7 tournies in a row I had another decent showing and was in the final 100 with a bit of a stack and seated with a nice gal by the name of Fairyone69 and some Canadian boozehead with a sequined former Yardbird molesting his Les Paul with a violin bow as his avatar. This goof also had a seemingly terminal case of the hiccups.

Anyway the two of them were talking about points and the leaderboard so this time I asked. And then I saw and learned. And I became a good little stall and folder. But what THAT,and the League itself,teaches is patience and seeing the big picture. Poker is often condensed to one big hand in a given setting,but it is NEVER about any individual hand.

Ask myself,effsea,CoTe,JWK24,Dano and many others who are still here if playing in PSO helped improve their game. Yes the actual style itself only goes so far in a real money setting and aspects translate to the different realities of different real money disciplines with various degrees of relevance. But the KEY lessons of PSO---patience,discipline,adaptability and focusing on the main objective---these ALWAYS carry over. I wish I could tell you to ask great players and peeps like Hobojim,Starlanna,Wiseguyjim,JiveTurkey and many others if it helped their games. I hope they can be here again,and very soon,to answer that themselves.

When Americans do get back here I hope to move to the point in my poker journey where I no longer have a need to play in the League games. Not because they weren't/aren't worth playing,but because their worthiness have helped me move to another level.

Lastly I have to say that some of the posters here who are having a problem with the league structure,I can't help but notice that some of you don't have many posts here. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't availing yourselves of everything that this school has to offer. I hope it doesn't. But if that IS the case and you are reading this,then I implore you to take a look around at everything that is offered here. The Leagues are just a part of the larger whole. Not nearly the most important part I would suggest.

Hell,look how many of us Yanks who haven't been able to participate for months now are STILL here. That alone should tell you something.

Good luck to all and hope to see you on the ether-felt soon.
 
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Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:02 PM
(#16)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
I just feel really fortunate that I got the opportunity to learn tight poker before PSO became PSSL.

Moxie ... the open league is just so bad ...

I think the prizes are too top-heavy for the league, such that people have calculated (correctly) that it's more cost-effective time-wise to play and shoot for the $5, than to bank all that time and do it via league points.

You need to come in 14th in the league out of like 65,000 people to make $6 if you don't have 20VPP's? And you need to come in 79th to make $7.50 if you do have 20VPP's.

You only need to come in 1st, one time to make just as much - no VPP's required. And if you shove and don't double up 4 times in a row, then you haven't wasted any time.

Like true, there's more money to be made if you can come in first in the league - but if you shoot for first and come in like 21st due to variance, the payout's probably worse than if somebody had just played push-push for their share of the $10.

I think that's set up a really odd dynamic, with those who are trying to build their roll via the league playing only AA and KK, and not in the first 20 minutes, with those who are trying to build their roll via the individual league games playing anything and everything all-in, then all-in again?

It's so extreme - I personally wound up feeling like there was no educational value in the open league at all. There's got to be a better way to Stars to accomplish their goals? :/

Last edited by TrustySam; Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 10:08 PM..
 
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Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:05 PM
(#17)
Igotitnow's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 21
I had a bad time when starting theses tournies last month as well...could not get my head around the weird stuff that happens.. but learnt somthing that i was so lacking PATIENCE. I had a gripe about the stupid play and one of the mods said time it out fold rinse and repeat. I t works. Flops I see are usually less than 16%. I use the time to work out what peeps are up to and u can get the right cards in the right position the donkeys will happily double u up. Getting in the points is what matters any positive score adds up.. anyways gl and dont let the donks get you down patience and smart play will prevail even in these tourneys.
regards wendy
 
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Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:11 AM
(#18)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
+ LOTS

I have a big stack, and guess what - i't;s mostly due to PSO. I played a lot of play money, then I played a lot of .10 and .25 games, but the real difference in my game is due to PSO.

I watched videos, I read the hand analysis, and a lot of peeps here helped me grow my game. I started with zero and have enough of a stack to play whatever I want now.

Take advantage of all that PSO has to offer, and I guarantee that you will improve your game, you just have to listen.



BTW, the stack is 1K plus now, started from $0. Yes, over $1,000 from $0, I did it and you can do it too.
 
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Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:22 AM
(#19)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
I just feel really fortunate that I got the opportunity to learn tight poker before PSO became PSSL.

Moxie ... the open league is just so bad ...

I think the prizes are too top-heavy for the league, such that people have calculated (correctly) that it's more cost-effective time-wise to play and shoot for the $5, than to bank all that time and do it via league points.

You need to come in 14th in the league out of like 65,000 people to make $6 if you don't have 20VPP's? And you need to come in 79th to make $7.50 if you do have 20VPP's.

You only need to come in 1st, one time to make just as much - no VPP's required. And if you shove and don't double up 4 times in a row, then you haven't wasted any time.

Like true, there's more money to be made if you can come in first in the league - but if you shoot for first and come in like 21st due to variance, the payout's probably worse than if somebody had just played push-push for their share of the $10.

I think that's set up a really odd dynamic, with those who are trying to build their roll via the league playing only AA and KK, and not in the first 20 minutes, with those who are trying to build their roll via the individual league games playing anything and everything all-in, then all-in again?

It's so extreme - I personally wound up feeling like there was no educational value in the open league at all. There's got to be a better way to Stars to accomplish their goals? :/

Sam, the key is you have to learn to adjust to all the types of play you will see out there.

If you think the donks in the Open Legue are bad, try a 1.10 turbo, or even a regular speed tourney. There's lots of donks in these too.

Bottom line, there's donks in every level, you just need to recognize them. And then adjust your play to take advantage of their weaknesses.

It's easier said than done, but practice makes perfect!!
 
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Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:46 AM
(#20)
Igotitnow's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 21
well well just bombed out lol. yep AA what u think here...10k starters down to 5k blinds 160/80 my stack down to 1300 have looked at nothing ie: fold rinse repeat I am in sb all fold 1 limper and bb next to me has been very eratic so has the limper... my thinking was didnt want to go all in as just encouraged the mental cases and had 2 lol...so pre flop raise of 700 leaves me 600...bb calls as I knew he would but limper raises
yep I called lol...bb raises again
limper now calls flop 2 hearts and a jc limper is all in mental bb calls...limper turn raiser has 46h and bb mental has somthing just as obscure the AA lost..can happen u have to wonder if I went all in would all that of transpired.. probably yes as limper pushed his 46 to 90% of his stack preflop hitting to hearts he was never going to fold... so my bad should of folded the AA in this circumstance as were both proven idiots and it was down to bingo and AA isnt a miracle hand just 2 cards......what was that I said time out fold rinse and repeat... that was my lesson today..but I am not angry anymore just think how maybe I could of done better.. its cards its gambling and its sooooooooooooo much fun
 

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