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JJ calling to show down, early in 180 man $2.50.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 12:17 PM
(#1)
Feskprins's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 450
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 12:56 PM
(#2)
john.duce's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
I probably would've reraised his flop bet to regain control. Punish calling stations by forcing them into big pots. I think.

Read hand wrong. You had control he's just a dumbass

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Last edited by john.duce; Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 01:07 PM..
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 01:02 PM
(#3)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
I don't think I'd put anyone ona bluff raise this early in a tourney. Personally I would've prolly tried to check it down after he called the turn bet, 3 hearts there and a 4th hitting the river, I'd think he had an Ax with the A of hearts there. Why he kept calling with the QT off is beyond me. After the turn comes up he must know he's in bad shape and probably rivering the queen isn't gonna save him.

john.duce: are you speaking from I'mJigJig's point of view? Cause then - the opponent didn't make a flop bet, so nothing to raise. If you're speaking from the other guy, I would not raise the flop bet with the QT off. If he bets the flop again I'm mucking my QT this early ina tourney, even if I strongly suspect he's bluffing.

Then again, I nwouldn't even have called the preflop raise with the QT off. Not profitable this early.

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Last edited by Ov3rsight; Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 01:06 PM..
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 01:47 PM
(#4)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
PRE - early stages like this my std raise is usually 4BB so add 1 to the limper that's 5BB just to make it more expensive for the BB to see the flop but when it's 25/50 you can lower it down to 3BB

but your raise is definitely fine

flop - pot is 190 your bet is 180 too big in my opinion i would prefer 140 i know you want to take down the pot right there because your afraid of the draws.

make a standard cbet and my standard cbet is 75% of the pot always so that your opp will have no clue on what are you cbetting with

because i notice some players if they have a strong hand their cbet is almost the same as the pot but if their hand is weak the bet is 40%-50%. you dont want to be seen by your opp

make a std cbet and you can also fix that in your bet slider option so that you dont have to compute everytime

turn 550 pot you bet 630 too big. this is the bet of a monster hand afraid of the draw

river opp donks bet easy call if you lose so be it you invested so much you can't fold

nice hand sir
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 07:05 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,831
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Hi I'mJigJig,

Thanks Feskprins for putting the hand into the replayer. I'mJigJig, the hand replayer can be accessed here and the instructions for using the replayer are in this link.

Preflop: UTG+1 limps and it is folded to JJ. I like the raise here, as JJ plays much better against less hands. A standard raise to 80 chips also helps to conceal the hand. The BB and not the original limper calls the raise.

Flop: 3 6 6 a board pair with two hearts. The BB checks, so I would value bet in this situation, as JJ can easily be the best hand, as the opp could easily have a draw or overcards or a lower pair. I like the size of the value bet here, at just below pot, as there are many draws available... and the opp calls.

Turn: 7 hearts, that would complete a heart flush draw. The opp checks again. I like value betting here again, but if I were playing the hand, I would have bet smaller, about 375-400 chips here. I want to price out a higher heart from drawing at me and make it -EV for the opp to do so, but also for pot control. It's also the first level of a tourney, so opps can be staying with basically ATC.

River: 10 of hearts, putting four hearts on the board. Now, the opp that had been playing the entire hand passively suddenly shoves.
This could be a bluff by the opponent, but this early in a tourney, there are plenty of players that will call any bet with any ace. If the opp has the A, K or Q of hearts, I'm beat. The opp could also have a full house or even a straight flush.
30BB is still a playable stack if I fold and in this situation on the first level of a tourney, I don't want to be putting my tourney life on the line without knowing that I have the best hand and therefore, I muck to the shove.

The way it was played, if I was considering a bet on the turn of 1/2 my stack, committing me to the pot, instead of letting the opp call and see the river card, if I'm calling/betting any river card, I would rather shove here than to call a shove on the river. I'd always rather be the first to shove, compared to having to call a shove when I didn't know that I had the best hand.

I like playing hands on the first few levels of a tourney more conservatively, until some of the maniac players and calling stations are out (or I get a premium hand that I know is ahead). I also like using pot control early for the same reason. This lessens my risks early and gives me a better chance to make a deeper run in a tourney.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 11:11 AM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,831
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Hi I'mJigJig,

In this hand, I don't see any bluff raising. The only raise the entire hand was you preflop with JJ, which is definitely not a bluff and is exactly what I would do in that situation.
Bluffing early in a tourney is very dangerous, as there are many calling stations and maniacs still in, that could be calling a bluff, or any bet at all, with ATC.

There are many things that I try to be sure of before I try to bluff a player, that I have a tighter table image and have not had anything marginal go to showdown along with the table image and reactions from the opps left to act needs to be known too. Bluffs work better against tighter opponents, if I try to do them against looser opps, they'll get called more and I will lose chips in the long run if I do too many of them. To know the tendencies of the opps at the table takes time and normally can't be determined in the first level of a tourney.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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