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how to play this right-big 11

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how to play this right-big 11 - Sat Jan 07, 2012, 04:12 PM
(#1)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

is it a fold on the river?
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 04:30 PM
(#2)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
I don't know if I would have raised the Q2 off. I'm basically hoping for all to fold there, because there's not gonna be a flop out there I'll be happy with unless I flop a set or 2 pair. Even a Q high flop won't make me all happy, though the odds of the caller having a Q as well is rather limited. Flopping a pair of ducks, well, let's not go there.

Whee - dream flop - 2 pair. So we're most likely good here. Opponent bets half pot, so the options are call or raise. I need to protect my hand since the pair of deuces is too vulnerable to a possible counterfeit on turn or river, so I'll opt to raise to about 4k. I think the minraise is way too small, giving the opponent better than 4 to 1 odds to call. He's basically priced in to call with any draw or pair, and I wanted to protect my baby pair here.

J on the turn isn't my favorite card of course. He could have been playing a AJ or KJ which was certainly priced in to call the flop bet, and I'll be drawing to 4 outs then. Overall, we're probably still good. He checks, and I'd opt for a value bet of around 3/4 pot to price him out of chasing his draw. So around 6-6.5k. But that leaves me with only 6.5k behind. that's gonna be one very small value bet on the river, 6.5k into a 21k pot. So, If I go for a bet here I might as well shove it allin. After all - the flush draw is there now, and I really don't want him drawing to a club on the river.

River makes another club, and another overcard, doing excactly what I was trying to prevent from the get go - my pair of ducks is now counterfeited, and the lone K has me beat. Also, the flush got there. So to answer your question: yes, I would have mucked to his river bet.

Overall, I think you should have shoved the turn to price out people with one pair or the flush draw, as your hand is vulberable to both of them. Downside is: if you don push the turn, you'll basically get called only by a hand holding a J. If the opponent isn't a complete maniac, he won't be chasing his flush then.

As it turns out, it wouldn't have mattered, we were pretty much dead on the turn. I would have been gone after this hand. Or maybe not since I prolly wouldn't have played the Q2 ...

----------------------------------------------------
keeping up with my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 04:34 PM
(#3)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

is it a fold on the river?


??? is it a fold pre flop ???

some sort of read on villain or why are you in this hand in the 1st place?
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:05 PM
(#4)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
i want to attack the limper

opp is a limper

i want to chip up without showdown

i thought i got him on the flop. i want his whole stack my opp can't even guess my hand this is so good about raising he can't guess your card.

i have chips and position and the confidence to outplay my opp postflop
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:08 PM
(#5)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
maybe i was in love with my card again after the flop that's why i called the river bet - only if opp is bluffing that i could win that hand

i think i played it perfectly until the river card
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:13 PM
(#6)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
on the river you're not beating anything, even before there were several hands in his range that have you beat 22 QJ, once you decide to play this it can get messy, imho.
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:17 PM
(#7)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Django66 View Post
on the river you're not beating anything, even before there were several hands in his range that have you beat 22 QJ, once you decide to play this it can get messy, imho.
i beg to disagree

this hand is so easy to play

if i didn't hit anything i an fold immediately

i was given a flop that can ship the stacks of my opp to my side and i have a plan to do it just the board doesn't cooperate on the turn and the river

but i should have folded the river bet. should have could have

that's why were here to discuss and improve so the next time i'll never make the same mistake again

lesson learned - that's the best part
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:20 PM
(#8)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
this is the example of how i play in position

when it's in the middle stages i don't wait for a hand i just play in position and attack my caller and if my caller played back i just easily fold

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

i want to chip up without showdown

this is poker
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:21 PM
(#9)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
i beg to disagree
what with ?
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:25 PM
(#10)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
this is the example of how i play in position

when it's in the middle stages i don't wait for a hand i just play in position and attack my caller and if my caller played back i just easily fold


i want to chip up without showdown

this is poker

different, no limper,imo.
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:26 PM
(#11)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
when i decided to play Q2 it will get messy

it wont

because i raise representing sir i got a strong hand

if i just call that is messy
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:28 PM
(#12)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
when i decided to play Q2 it will get messy

it wont

because i raise representing sir i got a strong hand

if i just call that is messy

who mentioned calling ?
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:29 PM
(#13)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
im playing $11R($70K) now

this is just now

what you want to do in middle stages is to win the blinds as many as possible so your not going to be blinded out

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:30 PM
(#14)
Django66's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 215
hey marvin, maybe we should wait for a verbose respons, i'm just giving my opinion, you believe you played this right, i don't.

anyway good luck at the tables, ceeya.
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:32 PM
(#15)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Django66 View Post
who mentioned calling ?
no one mentioned calling i was just saying if i only called this one that's the time it will be messy but i didn't i represented a strong hand.

im telling a story that i have a strong hand and my opp is telling me that his hand is only good for 1BB he is very weak i want to take advantage of my opp
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 05:33 PM
(#16)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Django66 View Post
hey marvin, maybe we should wait for a verbose respons, i'm just giving my opinion, you believe you played this right, i don't.

anyway good luck at the tables, ceeya.
it's cool to have debates like this

both of us will benefit

this is why i love hand analysis

this is not personal this is all about the hand
 
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Sat Jan 07, 2012, 11:35 PM
(#17)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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Hi Marvin,

Preflop: I'm mucking this preflop. Q2 is a hand that I'll pass on here, unless I had a proven read on the limper and the players in the blind.

Heads-up, in position to a flop with a Q and 2. The limper leads for a bet of about 1/2 pot. The board with a Q and J could easily have hit one or both of their cards and they also could have 22. I like the idea of raising here with 2 pair both for value and to protect the hand.

The opp calls then checks the flop that is the J of clubs for a board pair and a flush draw. I'm betting the turn here, for value and to protect against draws.

The river brings the K of clubs. This completes a flush, A 10 now has a straight and KQ/KJ now have a higher two pair. The opp makes a value bet of 5750. I'm not calling this bet here, as there are too many hands in the opp's range that turned into made hands that can beat us on the river.

I really like the fold on the river here. Yes, it could be a bluff since it went check/check on the turn (if I was the opp, I'd bet the river with any K,Q or J after it went check/check), but the K of clubs on the river completes a number of hands in the opp's range too.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables

John (JWK24)


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