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K-K vs A-A in sunday storm

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K-K vs A-A in sunday storm - Mon Jan 09, 2012, 11:29 AM
(#1)
arkadi88's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 7
the player played 10% of his starting hands so far,
the reraise on the turn was a try to represent set of 9 and to make the opponent check the river
how could i know he has aces by risking less chips?

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1587590
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+1: t6720 112 BBs
UTG+2: t6300 105 BBs
MP1: t7039 117.32 BBs
MP2: t4570 76.17 BBs
Hero (CO): t5070 84.50 BBs
BTN: t2926 48.77 BBs
SB: t4070 67.83 BBs
BB: t3925 65.42 BBs
UTG: t4650 77.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is CO with K :diamond: K :club:
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t180, 3 folds, Hero calls t180, 1 fold, SB calls t150, BB calls t120

Flop: (t720) 5 :heart: 3 :club: 8 :diamond: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets t420, Hero calls t420, SB folds, BB calls t420

Turn: (t1980) 9 :diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets t1020, Hero raises to t2220, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t1200

River: (t6420) T :spade: (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

*** SHOW DOWN ***
nezhelatin: shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
arkadi88: mucks hand
nezhelatin collected 6420 from pot
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 01:09 PM
(#2)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Too bad you didn't use the hand replayer, makes it easier to see

Anyways, personally I would have put in a 3-bet with the Kings. Two reasons: 1 is obvious - get money in the pot so we can win a big one, and 2 - by flatting you're giving the remaining three players the chance the flat behind since they're priced in, or squeeze. The latter of course would be nice cause we can flat behind then or 5-bet with the Kings. The problem with others coming in to the pot - the more people in the pot, the bigger the chance of one of them having an ace if an ace flops, and the bigger the chance of someone drawing out on you. Even UTG+1 could have a small ace that he might fold to a healthy 3-bet. As it is, we're four ways with kings. High pairs like AA and KK play best against 1 opponent.

Flop is great, assuming no one had a PP and flopped a set, but since that only happens in 10% of hands, we don't need to worry too much about it. The flop's a rainbow, so no flushdraws, and the only straight draw is something with 24, A4, A2, 67. And the ace-rag could be there in the SB or BB.... Had we 3-bet preflop, the A2 and A4 would probably have folded, and we wouldn't need to worry about that straight draw. As it is, the straight draws have 8 outs, and are gonne beat you 1/3 of hands.

Now UTG+1 bets out again. Either he's C-betting assuming no one hit the flop, or he got something out of it. Again you flat where I would raise. If I flat, I still don't know if UTG+1 has a hand or not, and again I invite the blinds in by providing them with the proper odds to call with most hands. A raise would price out the straight draw, and the UTG+1 would fold too if he missed the flop.

Turn brings a flush draw and another straight draw for something like J,10. I'm not assuming one of the other players actually holds the 6,7 that got there. By now the pot is upto 1980 (33BB) and we have 600 invested and basically no knowledge of what the opponents have. UTG+1 bets again. So now he probably has something. Top pair, or a pair of 8s. Maybe he did flop himself a set. He could be C-betting with air and caught himself a flushdraw. Pot is now 3k, so any raise is going to have to be for at least 2.5k, probably more, which represents half our remaining stack, not a good situation. Flatting behind means inviting a shove on the river from UTG+1. You raise, the blind gets out, and UTG+1 calls. This means he definitely has a hand. And then - even if he now has the flush draw, he's virtually priced in to call with 9 outs (18%) vs pot odds of 1200/5220 (23%)

River blanks out, so you're good if he didn't catch the flush. Still - had he been chasing a straight he might have got there. Check, check, and drat, he has the aces.

So you were always going to lose to this guy, it's just a question of how much. It could have been a lot more. Could it have been less? I'm not sure.

Like I said - I would have liked to have seen a 3-bet preflop to get rid of the blinds, or a raise on the flop to get rid of them. You played pretty passively upto the turn, and I think you could have gotten rid of them and gotten some information about UTG+1's hand a lot cheaper had you raised the flop instead of the turn.

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keeping up with my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 03:23 PM
(#3)
arkadi88's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 7
thanks for the detailed replay
if i had made a 3 bet preflop
could i have folded to a 4bet with pocket K?
the preflop raisor played tight so far
i didn't want to face this tough decision
against looser opponent of course i would have made a-3bet preflop

i guess the best thing to do was re raise the flop

p.s can you give me the link to the site that visualises your hand?
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 04:01 PM
(#4)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
That's a tricky one. I know I'll never lay down KK to a 4-bet, even against a tight player. If he has AA, too bad, but he could also do it with QQ or maybe even AK if he sticks to playing tight.

For the link: top of this page, the 'tools' menu. You insert the hand history (+ icon), hit 'read' (it now adds the hand in the list), hit 'quick save'. Then you do the link icon (the chainy thing to the left of the + icon), and you get a code that you can paste in your post.

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keeping up with my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
 
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Mon Jan 09, 2012, 08:50 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,858
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi arcadi88!

Tough spot for KK.

If I were playing this one, I would have 3-bet preflop. Obviously an opp with AA is going to call or 4-bet, but anyone holding a marginal hand should drop. The less that are in the hand, the less of a chance there is for someone to outdraw KK.

On the flop, with such a dry board, when UTG+1 bets, I like the call behind here instead of raising. Both for pot control and because you don't know if KK is the best hand or not. Many players early in a tourney will be playing small pairs and could have hit a set.

The turn brings the 9 of diamonds, that completes a possible straight and puts a flush draw out there. UTG+1 leads again and I like the raise here. If the opps call another raise, that helps to get the info that KK may not be ahead.

The river completes another 2 straights (QJ, J7). I like the check behind here. It's early in the tourney and I wouldn't want to risk my tourney life on a hand that I wasn't sure was ahead. KK definitely has showdown value here too.
If I was the opp with AA, I'm betting the river again here.

I think you got out of this hand for about as few chips as you could. If you 3-bet the flop, that might have saved some chips on the flop or turn, but then again, maybe not.

This hand's a good example of a cooler. Good job not going bust on it

John (JWK24)


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