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Shove right?

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Shove right? - Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:10 PM
(#1)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Pretty early in a $1.50 27man SnG. Blinds are still at 1st level.

The hand plays out. The question is if the shove on the turn was correct, or if a call would've gotten me more value.



preflop: obvious - AK on the button is a standard 3x raise. BB calls it.

Flop comes 3 undercards rainbow and a gutshot draw to the nuts. He donks into me for less than half pot, so I decide to raise it up. I showed strength and the donkbet could mean anything, from a gutshot to an underpair to a flopped pair or set. I wanna know where I stand and calling doesn't tell me anything. The pot is now 190 and I raise to about 3/4, 150. If he calls, I still have the overcards and the gutshot.
Looking back, that means I give him odds of 90/340, or almost 4 to 1. Should I have bet bigger? I doubt the flopped pair or set would go anywhere, the underpair I'm not sure about, and at this level people will chase a gutshot so I don't think a bigger bet would have achieved much.

Flop is jackpot, my gutshot comes in. It's another heart6, so he may have caught a flush draw, but that wasn't on my list of things to worry about. He donks again, twice his flop bet. Now for the same reason as the flop, I'm pondering a raise. The flopped pair and set don't mean anything. The flopped pair is drawing dead, and the set is drawing to 6 outs for a boat. If he has a straight as well with the 89 he's dead, if he hit the straight with the K9 he's drawing to a split. I doubt he has either.

So - betsizing. The pot is now 550. Any raise from my end is going to be at least 400 making it 950. That would give him 29% pot odds, enough to price in the flush draw if that's what he has. He could have paired the flop with a suited hand in hearts. If that's the case, he'd be priced in and has to shove at which point folding is not an option. So I decide to take that chance away from him and shove on him. It's a huge shove, 2.5x pot, and he mucks. edit: calls

What do you think about the betsize on the flop and the shove on the turn? Would it have been better to flat the turn or raise smaller to bring him into the river?

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Last edited by Ov3rsight; Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:51 PM..
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:36 PM
(#2)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
I'd have made my first raise a bit bigger. Not much but a little. Turn card BINGO! I like the shove at this level of a low buyin. Soooo much worse will call.
One thing.... He didn't muck. He called. But you see what I mean. TP/oe call it off, even after you showed so much strength with your raises. Nice one imo.
MT
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 01:43 PM
(#3)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
agree with MT much better if you raise 180 on the flop just to give to make him believe of your pre flop raise

but i like your play of raising instead of calling - great job sir

turn - your opp donks bet 120 in a 430 pot i believe your opp is on a very weak hand he is just betting so you might tend to just call your best hand. the best term for this is a blocking bet.

weak bet means weak hand often but not all the times but here it's definitely weak

turn - personally i would prefer a reraise of 300 just to induce a bluff from him so that he can still thought ooopss maybe i can bluff him if I shove all in or your opp might want to stay for one more street and then decides to donks bet all in

turn - you shove and your opp run away you don't want your opp to run away with a nut straight try to get value as much as possible
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 03:56 PM
(#4)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
weak bet means weak hand often but not all the times

This is a $1.50 tournament - I doubt there's many people there who will misrepresent their hand through betsizing on purpose. They'll be there, but there won't be many of them....

But you're right, I thought the bet was too weak, and just calling is an option of course, but not a profitable one. After all, if I just call, then I have no way of figuring out what he has. If I raise, he can fold or call or even re-raise me. And then at least I'll have some more info.

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keeping up with my poker semi-career: ov3rsight.blog.com
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 04:02 PM
(#5)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ov3rsight View Post
weak bet means weak hand often but not all the times

This is a $1.50 tournament - I doubt there's many people there who will misrepresent their hand through betsizing on purpose. They'll be there, but there won't be many of them....

But you're right, I thought the bet was too weak, and just calling is an option of course, but not a profitable one. After all, if I just call, then I have no way of figuring out what he has. If I raise, he can fold or call or even re-raise me. And then at least I'll have some more info.

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+1
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 04:47 PM
(#6)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Hi Ov3rsight, nice hand.

I'd call the flop. You have a very medium hand here. If he shoves you have to fold, and that's not what you want when you have a gutshot with overs. Float his donk-bet and reevaluate on the turn. I actually really don't like raising here. If you had a hand like A3 I'd be more inclined to raise like you did. But with AK I think this is a very standard call.

Also, if an ace or king falls on the turn your opponent may bet it since it's a good scare card, but it almost always gives you the best hand, so you're likely to get another bet out of him.

I like the shove on the turn though. When he calls your flop raise he's usually pretty strong and when he leads the turn he usually is too. This board is dripping wet, and there are some scary cards that can come on the river, so getting it in here is nice. You're also giving him 2 to 1 odds which is going to put him to a fun decision. And as long as you occasionally make a play like this on a draw you allow him to make a lot of mistakes. You can have so many draws here as well as the nuts. Nice one.


4 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by oriholic; Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 05:46 PM..
 

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