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open league shove on flop

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open league shove on flop - Tue Jan 10, 2012, 01:26 PM
(#1)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
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Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Was i wrong to shove here. This was 20 minutes in and the whole table was loose.
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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I do believe I have said it in other places, but I'll repeat myself. The Ace-King hand should be put down as a group four hand, not group one. Far too often it bombs. It has great potential, but it needs too much help. Yeah, my thoughts do defy the professionals.





That said, I too would be going into this hand to the river. The Ace is dominent and the super kicker makes it a valid play, but I'm trying to limp. You forced two players all-in and left yourself open to the flush. Any diamond could become a winner and there are ten remaining unaccounted. My thought would be to check or a modest raise. Since this is a loose table, a check might have highlighted the power held.

Player One, (queens), has a 4-card flush. However, an ace should keep this player from betting. If the flush doesn't hit, the queens are definite losers with an ace showing on a loose table. Loose players always go to the flop if they have an ace.

Player Two, (Ace-three), catches the ace and has a runner-runner for the straight. Since he has no diamonds, I'm thinking he would make a modest bet if you didn't force him.

The turn became a double kill card. It gave Player One a flush. With the Ace on the board, there is just one card that can hurt, the king of diamonds. The odds of you having the King are one in eight since she figured you had an ace to bid that heavy. Player Two has two pairs. Not a great hand, but now he need only hope you didn't catch a second pair.
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 04:19 PM
(#3)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
I like the preflop raise. You can't limp with the AK because it's far too weak against many opponents I think. Plus - it's not even a pair. However, the next guy immediately minraises, and gets called, which I don't like. Now I'm not folding AKs here for a minraise, especially since it's only a small part of my stack.

The flop however, is dreadful. Sure, top-top is nice, but I hate 3 diamonds. I'm drawing pretty much dead two either of them having two diamonds, and if they're playing loose they most likely will not go away if they're holding one diamond. Which means if either of them has a diamond, we're almost a 3-2 favorite. So no, I'm not shoving there. Sure, it prices out the flushdraw, but if your read is that these are loose players, I'm considering the fact that they won't care too much about the odds and will chase the flush. I'd have bet somewhere around 750, with the intention to fold if I get shoved on. That leaves me with enough chips behind to play with.

As you see, we're in bad shape. One guy has the high pair with the flush draw, the other has just ace rag. All in all, not the greatest spot to be in.

The turn is even more disastrous as now both opponents have us beat and we're drawing dead. At least Ace-rag guy has 3 outs to a full house...

QQ guy should have bet more preflop, the minraise invites at least you to come along, and I'd rather not face an early position raiser with Queens. Too much chance he has an ace so I'll hate a flop with an ace.
A3 guy played it worse. Big Blind or not, when you see a early position raise and a 3-bet before you, I'm never playing the ace-rag. If I flop the ace, you can bet on it that either the open-raiser or the 3-bettor has an ace, and my kicker is never good.
Your move on the flop imho was overplaying your hand. It may have been top-top, but in the end it's just one pair. With the flush draw, and the straight draw out there, I'm not gonna shove for 2.5x pot and hope everyone folds. like I said - loose players, so you have to factor into your decision that he's not gonna be folding a flush draw.

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Last edited by Ov3rsight; Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 04:21 PM..
 
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Tue Jan 10, 2012, 05:34 PM
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Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
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Keldraco's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 102
in open league the only playable hand is AA, KK and QQ. all other hand should be folded. that how i play. post flop i only play when i have 2 pair or better.

Last edited by Keldraco; Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM..
 
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Thu Jan 12, 2012, 03:13 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Hi m.bisland!

In any of the league games, the thing to always remember.. points... points... points.

I would make the same preflop raise and would call the small 3-bet from the opp to your left.

On the flop, there are 3 diamonds, so there is no way to know that AK is the best hand. Due to this, I would not shove here. In league games, I wouldn't ever want to be all-in unless I was certain that I was ahead, as the point penalty for getting ko'd early is not worth the gain in chips.
With a possible flush already out there and with straight or flush draws, I'm checking in this situation and folding to any larger bet, as I wouldn't want to put any extra chips into a pot where I might not have the best hand.

The key to the league games is to survive as long as possible, to accumulate the maximum points for a tourney. Due to this, I'm not taking any risks where I would be all-in, unless I knew that I had the best hand.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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