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27-man SnG JJ

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27-man SnG JJ - Sat Jan 14, 2012, 09:39 AM
(#1)
taomage's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 134
Ok I started playing some 27-man SnG's and came across this hand:

Information on opponents:

The pot opener was playing very tight and is a regular at these and very easy to pick up the pot if he misses the board, the other one was a complete blank for me.

I got JJ and decided to just call him, I would say his range at that position this early in the tournament could be:

99+, AJs, AQ-AK.

I didn't raise because I really didn't want to make a huge pot pre-flop against him and because there is a fair amount of hands he could beat me with I decided to play it calm.

So first the hand:



So the flop, doesn't look too bad. He makes a bet as first to act, well I know from yesterday when I played multiple of these also with him in it that he lakes to C-bet. So I decided to raise him, then the 2nd opponent calls and Grem raises, I was thinking about what possible hands he would shove with here. So I put him at maybe 88, maybe TT would be an option and QQ+ so with 21bb left I decided to fold, which turned out pretty good. I came back to 2K chips and eventually got eliminated with, ironically, JJ, vs AK.

Anyway, my questions: Should I have made a raise on this guy pre-flop to shorten his ranges a little bit? Should I have just lay down my hand after the bet on the flop? Or was the raise the right decision to make? And because of the fact the pot was so big should I have just called with JJ after the shove?

Thank you

ps. Making notes on opponents is very helpful
 
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Sat Jan 14, 2012, 01:54 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi taomage,

Given that the opener is a nitty regular I definitely like flat calling preflop over 3 betting. If you reraise you will usually just be value owning yourself, getting it in against the strongest parts of his opening range and folding out the hands JJ plays well against. JJ is actually borderline vs. an opponent like this opening in EP, but we have a positional advantage on him and you said he will give up on bad flops for him, so I do like calling with the post flop exploitability of this guy.

On the flop I don't like raising at all, for the same exact reasons as preflop... we are going to fold out all worse hands, and get shoved on by better hands. Since he has a tendency to give up when he doesn't have it and gets action, I would flat call the flop and be prepared to fold to a turn barrel, or bet in position if he checks.

As played, this is absolutely a fold to the shove. Your hand is never good here, the nit has KK/AA virtually all the time to take this line.

Quote:
I was thinking about what possible hands he would shove with here. So I put him at maybe 88, maybe TT would be an option and QQ+
You didn't even have 88 in his preflop raising range. It's unlikely he's going to stack off 99 or TT here, I mean some players are for sure but nits, not so much. A nit is going to be concerned when this action comes back to him that he's up against bigger pocket pairs or a set. I mean we can't say he would never shove TT here, but I think a nits range is weighted to premium pairs in this spot.

Dave


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Sat Jan 14, 2012, 08:21 PM
(#3)
taomage's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 134
[QUOTE=TheLangolier;327703]
On the flop I don't like raising at all, for the same exact reasons as preflop... we are going to fold out all worse hands, and get shoved on by better hands. Since he has a tendency to give up when he doesn't have it and gets action, I would flat call the flop and be prepared to fold to a turn barrel, or bet in position if he checks.

You didn't even have 88 in his preflop raising range. /QUOTE]

About your idea about the flop:

I think that is a very interesting approach. So instead of "testing" his hand right here we should in fact let him test his own hand at the turn. But then I am really interested what influence the other player has/could have on this hand, because we would also allow him to make this pot really profitable with a flush draw and/or straight draw.

And about the 88, take in mind my reads where based on a few tables I put him on "about" 99+, so a 88 would definitely not be excluded at this point..

But I really appreciate your evaluation and will definitely bare this in mind the next time I come across this opponent.

Thank you
 
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Sat Jan 14, 2012, 10:41 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by taomage View Post
So instead of "testing" his hand right here
Raising "to see where you're at" is an old and flawed concept. Information can be a good side effect of a raise, but it should never be the primary reason to raise. Ask yourself if you're raising for value or as a bluff. It's certainly not a bluff as no better hands will fold. It's not really good for value either since not many worse hands will call. If the raise isn't a good bluff nor a good value bet, then it's probably just not good in the first place.


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Sun Jan 15, 2012, 06:30 AM
(#5)
taomage's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 134
Ok I see, thank you very much
 

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